British Barracks to Canadian Forts and back again.

Just to get things a little clearer in this fuzzy noggin of mine

When the Canadians moved into the Iserlohn/Deilinghofen/Soest/ etc areas, they took over existing British Barracks in some cases, and built others, such as Forts Prince of Wales and MacLeod.

On their departure, were all of these Forts were handed back or over to British units, or were some closed and handed back to the German authorities?

Quite possibly being a bit here, but just want to get it straight in my own bonce.

Paul.

Hi Paul
So far as Iserlohn is concered Fort Beausejour previously Epson Barracks before they took over in 1957 became Corunna Barracks for 26 Engr Regt who moved in Nov 70 from Sennalager (barracks unknown) Fort Qu'Appelle previously Mons Barracks went to the German Army Paratroopers
Cheers
Steve

Steve wrote:

Hi Paul
So far as Iserlohn is concered Fort Beausejour previously Epson Barracks before they took over in 1957 became Corunna Barracks for 26 Engr Regt who moved in Nov 70 from Sennalager (barracks unknown) Fort Qu'Appelle previously Mons Barracks went to the German Army Paratroopers
Cheers
Steve

I knew one Steve/Stephen would come up with something

Paul.

Steve is quite correct, as far as he goes.

The two forts in Iserlohn were originally German Kasernes, then British, as he mentions, then Canadian then back to the Brits.

The camps in Deilinghofen were always Canadian then after we pulled out (one of the biggest mistakes DND ever committed, IMHO) they went to the Brits as well, then to the town of Deilinghofen.

The camps in Werl followed a similar pattern, although I have it in my head at least one of the Werl camps were British originally, but don't quote me on that

The forts up in Soest were all originally Canadian, then British, then German civilian (light industy or some such thing).

It all gets a tad confusing, I know....and none of us are getting any younger and,so they say, it's the mind that goes first LOL

Stephen Lock wrote:

Steve is quite correct, as far as he goes.

The two forts in Iserlohn were originally German Kasernes, then British, as he mentions, then Canadian then back to the Brits.

The camps in Deilinghofen were always Canadian then after we pulled out (one of the biggest mistakes DND ever committed, IMHO) they went to the Brits as well, then to the town of Deilinghofen.

The camps in Werl followed a similar pattern, although I have it in my head at least one of the Werl camps were British originally, but don't quote me on that

The forts up in Soest were all originally Canadian, then British, then German civilian (light industy or some such thing).

It all gets a tad confusing, I know....and none of us are getting any younger and,so they say, it's the mind that goes first LOL

Hi Paul
Seems strange that the Canadians did not get Aldershot Barracks in Iserlohn it went back to the German Air Force in 1968 until ? now totally demolished except for the buildings as shown on the link it was big enough for two regiments instead Canadians had built new forts in Deilinghofen which were not up to the standard of the former German Army/Air Force barracks...read the comments of the British Army units who took them over...hope to meet up with 'Reservisten Kameradshaft' in Iserlohn next month at their meeting as many were stationed in the former Aldershot Barracks and hope to return with further details and hopefully photos
Cheers
Steve

Thank you Stephen and Steve (for the other topic replies as well, Steve).

I can vouch for the comments about the blocks in Deilinghofen, I spent just over two years there.

When I first arrived some of the blocks had been refurbished and were mostly 4 man rooms, although the outer fabric had little done to it. the other blocks were still "old-style", having the long barrack rooms. At least two of the refurbished blocks had one of the long rooms kept as it was, we used them as Battery Bars. I remember that HQ and N had one, so I am pretty sure that L and O also had one.

It is over 35 years ago, and as Stephen says, the memory goes somewhat. As far as I can remember in the old style blocks there was a central "ablutions" area with two long rooms at each end. And I think there was a JNCO's single bunk room at either end. The washrooms were freezing in anything but high summer.

I cannot remember if the block I was first in was ever refurbished but I moved down the hill a bit to one of the better blocks when I was attached to HQ Bty, and then back up the hill a bit when I was attached to N Bty.

If you look at the "Mid 50's" photo on the Fort Prince of Wales page, my first block was the one at the very end at the top of the photo, that much I do remember. My next block (HQ Bty) is out of sight on that photo, but I [i]think[i/] it was the first or second from left on the "Raising the Maple Leaf" photo. As for the N Bty block - it was somewhere in between . HQ Bty Office was at the very bottom, opposite the "Yank" Bar as we used to call it.

Paul.

Ehehehe...and here I thought British squaddies were made of stern stuff!

I agree, however, the barracks in Deilinghofen were certainly not up to the same standard as any of the buildings in the Iserlohn area (or the Belgian ones up in Soest). Those single level white barracks in Deilinghofen and Bad Sassendorf, and Werl for that matter, were what we often refer to as "jerry-built", meaning thrown up quickly and not very well. Our guys used to kvetch about them too!

When my parents were first stationed overseas, I was 5 years old going on 6 and my first school was in one of the low white buildings in one of the forts out in Deilinghofen, facing the road up to Apricke. I don't recall much about it, of course, but it did have large windows and a great view of the compound. I liked it actually, but then I also knew "Daddy" wasn't far away,which helped.

We didn't stay there long, mind you, as I recall. We soon got transferred (all Army gets transferred, even the kids LOL) into the school in the Hemer Married Quarters.

The wing facing the football pitch, at right angles to the one end of Berliner Strasse (closest to the NAAFI side) was the elementary school while the section over on the other side, where the main entrance was, was the high school.

When we returned to Germany in 1969 I was going into Grade 9 (roughly equivalent to 4th Form or perhaps 5th) and of course went to school in the Hemer High School. It was rather neat as I had very little experience, being an Army Brat, of being in a place that held memories of when I was younger. That school did and so I have always had bit of an attachment to it, although my primary attachment to all things Germany is Soest....

Getting back to the barracks at Deilinghofen and the refurbishing...It seems to me that even when the Canadians had them, some of the barracks had rooms for 4 and not just the old style dorm with beds lined up on either side of a central open "corridor."

No doubt the latrines were freezing...had to make sure the boys didn't dawdle, dontcha know? LOL Get in, do your business, move on. :->

When I was posted to Ft Henry in 1963,those single story white huts had about 20 beds in them with two Corporals rooms at the end,my buddy got caught with a part bottle of whiskey in his locker and got fined $25.In 1969 I was posted back there and the huts had been converted to two man rooms each with a rented fridge for the beer and the whiskey was on the window sill.

TonyE wrote:

When I was posted to Ft Henry in 1963,those single story white huts had about 20 beds in them with two Corporals rooms at the end,my buddy got caught with a part bottle of whiskey in his locker and got fined $25.In 1969 I was posted back there and the huts had been converted to two man rooms each with a rented fridge for the beer and the whiskey was on the window sill.

You must have been there at the Canadian move then, Tony.

Paul.

Yes Paul,I was involved in the move,being what was called in those days a Movements Specialist,now Traffic Tech.A mind boggling proposition considering that in the HQ on freight movement the planning staff was a captain and a sgt (me), but we were given a whole lot of guys from PPCLI to do the bull labour,but breaking the task down bit by bit we moved all the vehicles,stores and ammo to the new locations.In addition there was a great deal of furniture from the married quarters, people living on the economy in Lahr/Baden Soelingen had to supply their own furniture,so it was moved down south and sold through the Exchange System ( Cdn NAAFI) at very resonable prices.

TonyE wrote:

Yes Paul,I was involved in the move,being what was called in those days a Movements Specialist,now Traffic Tech.....people living on the economy in Lahr/Baden Soelingen had to supply their own furniture,so it was moved down south and sold through the Exchange System ( Cdn NAAFI) at very resonable prices.

Tony, there quite a lot of ****** off British squaddies when that sort of thing happened. They thought they were on to a good thing, but very little survived in the area I went to (Deilinghofen). That which did was still in use many years later. did not particularly bother me at that time, being a "singly"

Paul.

TonyE -- if you were there during the time the Canadians were handing over the Brigade Area to the British, you must have run across my father, WO Victor G. Lock. He was Canadian Ordance Corp and, along with two other Canadian soldiers all based, by then, out of Wetter. They were the last of the Canadian Brigade to remain in the old Brigade Area (Iserlohn-Hemer-Deilinghofen-Werl-Unna-Soest/Bad Sassendorf). That would have been circa 1970-71. We lived in Iserlohn at that time and I attended Cornwall Comprehensive in Dortmund rather than being sent down to Lahr to attend the Canadian school there and have to board out.

Yes, the issue of the furniture has come up for discussion previously. The British didn't want to buy it off the Canadians and so, as you mentioned, most of it was shipped off down to Lahr/Baden Soelingen for further use by the Canadians, most of whom were already familiar with the pieces and liked them, by and large. Many of us managed to "liberate" a few items and get them back to Canada LOL...small pieces like end tables and stools and such.

The pieces the BAOR ultimately decided to install in the Married Quarters were, to be blunt, pieces of shite, as you folks would say. Cheap, flimsy, and gawd-awful print fabric in the most garish of colours. I doubt any of it lasted more than a couple of years, unlike the sturdy Canadian stuff LOL

The last summer I was in Soest (1970) I got on a work crew that was clearing out the married quarters as well as some of the old barracks and either junking stuff or sending it off down to the Black Forest Region for use down there. I dimly recall, seems to me, some Brits involved in that -- although I couldn't swear to it -- so perhaps we met? I would have been 17 at the time....

Stephen Lock wrote:

.......The pieces the BAOR ultimately decided to install in the Married Quarters were, to be blunt, pieces of shite, as you folks would say. Cheap, flimsy, and gawd-awful print fabric in the most garish of colours. I doubt any of it lasted more than a couple of years, unlike the sturdy Canadian stuff LOL......

Stephen,

That was "state of the art G-Plan" if you would be so kind

Somebody, somewhere, must have developed that into what we now know as "High Visibility" clothing.

You would not believe the price that had to be paid if there was as much as a "."sized stain on it.

Paul.

Stephen,
I didn't know your Dad,for my troubles I got a promotion and posting to 4 Svc Bn in Lahr in Oct 70, as a transport pln WO totaly unqualified for the job.In June 71 I was sent back to Cda for a Chief Transportation Controller course and missed going with my guys back up to Ft Chambly to help with the close down. Soest was my favourite posting,twice,in my 24 years in the RCASC. We have an RCASC Association website which I check every day and they are still swapping yarns about who did what and when in the old brigade area.I lived on a farm just outside Lahr for seven years and had some of that furniture,it was still going strong when I left,just too big to bring back to the UK.

TonyE

There must have been 'issues' when the Brits took over former Canadians Forts in 1970 have received the following from a former member of 26 Engr Regt who served in Corunna Barracks Iserlohn mid 70s

"I heard that the Brits refused to pay for the additions/improvements that the Canadians had made to the barracks post-war (the Brits thought they would get them for free) so the Canadians stripped the place (even the light bulbs) and undid as many of their improvements as possible (eg they filled in the swimming pool which became the hard standing outside 2 Armd Sqn’s block) the Canadians also left a pile of ordnance in the ammo bunkers and we were still finding old ammunition around these in my time"

Turns out the Brits were there first 1948 to 1957 and the swimming pool was there before the Canadians arrived at Epsom Barracks renaming it Fort Beausejour have found a photo from the 50s on the internet which clearly should British Hussars sat by the swimming pool in Epsom Barracks

Cheers
Steve

I was responsible for planning the movement of all ammo from the various units in the brigade,working from lists supplied by the Ammunition Technical Officer,and it was all picked up and delivered to Lahr/Baden Soelingen. 1 Tpt Coy RCASC had trucks running all over the different Forts and down the autobahn for a couple of weeks to complete the job.Wish you had told me sooner,too late to go back for it now.

TonyE

A correction to my last statement,by that time 1Tpt Coy didn't exist,it had been renamed 4S&T Coy and moved to Fort Quapelle in Iserlohn.

i was working in hemer naafi from 1973 to 1980 ,i was told there used to be an ice rink at one of the barracks and that it was used as a storeroom for that lovely g-plan furniture.

graham wright wrote:

i was working in hemer naafi from 1973 to 1980 ,i was told there used to be an ice rink at one of the barracks and that it was used as a storeroom for that lovely g-plan furniture.

Welcome to the Forum Graham.

I take it you mean the Families NAAFI in Hemer. Us singlies were rarely in there .

The ice rink was out in Deilinghofen (Peninsula Barracks), although it was gone when I got there in early 1971.

Paul.

thanks for the welcome paul,yes it was the pads naafi.i used to live in the WESTIGER HOF at the bottom of zeppelin strasse by the rail crossing,you ever drop in for a foaming glass of iserlohner pils?

graham wright wrote:

thanks for the welcome paul,yes it was the pads naafi.i used to live in the WESTIGER HOF at the bottom of zeppelin strasse by the rail crossing,you ever drop in for a foaming glass of iserlohner pils?

Once or twice I believe

I left the area in June 1973, and was not back until 2005. I must admit, I missed out on the Iserlohner on my last visit

Paul.

By the way, have you looked at the Hemer page on the main site? And here:-

http://www.ruhrmemories.ca/miscellaneous/sitemap.html

Paul.

paul,thanks a lot for the link.the memories came flooding back.hemer,soest and iserlohn what grat times i had there,nice to show the mrs where i lived and worked.the old places look so different now.graham.

graham wright wrote:

paul,thanks a lot for the link.the memories came flooding back.hemer,soest and iserlohn what grat times i had there,nice to show the mrs where i lived and worked.the old places look so different now.graham.

No problem Graham. glad you enjoyed the photos.

Paul.

graham wright wrote:

paul,thanks a lot for the link.the memories came flooding back.hemer,soest and iserlohn what grat times i had there,nice to show the mrs where i lived and worked.the old places look so different now.graham.

Hi Graham
I lived in Hemer in your time 77-78 on the patch it looks very much the same today and will take a photo of the families NAAFI next time I pass as have lived in Iserlohn since Dec 2001
Cheers with a glass of Iserlohn Pilsner
Steve