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» What happened to website British Army Units 1945 Onwards
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitimeYesterday at 01:51 by Pborn4

» Battle of Paderborn March 30-31, 1945.
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime29/11/2022, 22:17 by Pborn4

» Berlin Various
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime29/11/2022, 21:50 by Rocky

» Berlin Bulletin
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime29/11/2022, 21:41 by Rocky

» Family >Research - Births
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime27/11/2022, 12:04 by Pborn4

» royal regt artillery
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime27/11/2022, 11:23 by Pborn4

» SENNELAGER and BA (G) Marches on
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime26/11/2022, 03:49 by Pborn4

» British Army unit to move back to Minden
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime26/11/2022, 03:41 by Pborn4

» Bridgers in Minden
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime26/11/2022, 03:34 by Pborn4

» Taurus House
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime24/11/2022, 12:28 by Brekits1

» British Garrison Verden 1945 - 1993
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime23/11/2022, 12:22 by Tug1965

» West Riding Barracks 1958 to 1963
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime22/11/2022, 19:00 by JGW

» I found a photo
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime22/11/2022, 18:42 by Pborn4

» Hildesheim, Ex Tofrek Barracks
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime22/11/2022, 12:56 by Michael christian

» Moore Barracks Dortmund
No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime22/11/2022, 08:41 by andrea

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 No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6

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Paddyb
NiallMcCathie
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NiallMcCathie
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Number of posts : 2
Age : 70
Registration date : 2009-03-08

No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Empty
PostSubject: No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6   No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime8/3/2009, 12:39

My late father was involved in this camp in 1945-6, but I have no idea in what capacity. He was in the Reconnaissance Corps (15th Scottish) from its formation, but was not with across Europe after D-Day. He was a War Service officer, ending as a Captain, leaving in 1946.

I have a reply to my father of a letter he wrote to Lord Russell of Liverpool (Neuremburg prosecutions) in which the latter mentions "No. 5 C.I.C" which he " .. often passed on my way from H.Q., B.A.O.R. to Padeborn".

Does anyone have any pointers to records about this camp - pointers to Archives, unit records, etc.

Cheers

Niall
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Paddyb
Cpl
Cpl



Number of posts : 13
Localisation : Normandy Bks, Sennelager
Cap Badge : former RA,
Places Served : Paderborn, Barnard Castle, Munsterlager, Sennelager
Registration date : 2008-01-30

No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6   No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime8/3/2009, 17:47

5 CIC was located at Staumuehle north of Sennelager in Kreis Paderborn. (The West part of Staumuehle Camp is now a Borstal type prison run by the german authorities). For the history 1945 - 48 you could look up the following at PRO Kew: War Office (WO 171/8302 and WO 171/10965. At first the camp had been under military jurisdiction (an infamous prisoner had been William Joyce - Lord Haw-Haw) however the camp quickly passed to civil (UK Home Office) jurisdiction, more records are at FO (Foreign Office) 1010/40, 1032/7921032/797, 1032/798, 1032/2228, 1050/747, 1050/748, 1050/750, 1050/752, 1050/1134, 1050/1523, 1050/1525, 1050/1526, 1051/495, 1060/4038, 1060/4040, 1060/4042, 1060/4053 and the Town Archive (Stadtarchiv) Paderborn holds a War Diary by Major Bell under ref S3/22. There is of course more - but find the bones first.
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NiallMcCathie
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Number of posts : 2
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Registration date : 2009-03-08

No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6   No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime8/3/2009, 18:20

Many thanks Paddyb - what a fantastic response!

I'll follow up those leads - well worth a special visit to Kew!

Thanks

Niall
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Paddyb
Cpl
Cpl



Number of posts : 13
Localisation : Normandy Bks, Sennelager
Cap Badge : former RA,
Places Served : Paderborn, Barnard Castle, Munsterlager, Sennelager
Registration date : 2008-01-30

No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6   No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime8/3/2009, 19:46

Of course on those days (pre 1946) HQ BAOR (2nd Army Defence Group) was in part still at Bad Lippspringe (moving to Bad Oeynhausen) and Paderborn was the nearest large town. The range ring road had not been built so the safe route was probably north west from Bad L on the Alte Bielefelderpoststrasse to Staumuehle and South back to Sennelager /Neuhaus [it had not had the prefix title "Schloss" yet] down to Paderborn.
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MNort
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Number of posts : 1
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PostSubject: Re: No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6   No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime4/4/2022, 15:11

Hello I'm new here.
Can you please give me a hint where I can find: PRO Kew: War Office (WO 171/8302 and WO 171/10965. and FO (Foreign Office) 1010/40, 1032/7921032/797, 1032/798, 1032/2228, 1050/747, 1050/748, 1050/750, 1050/752, 1050/1134, 1050/1523, 1050/1525, 1050/1526, 1051/495, 1060/4038, 1060/4040, 1060/4042, 1060/4053"
Thank you very much.

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alan8376
Brig
Brig



Number of posts : 681
Age : 74
Localisation : Norfolk, UK
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Carlisle AAS, Aden, Hildesheim, Bordon, Fallingbostel, Dover, NI Tours, Osnabruck, Herford, Muenster, UN Nicosia, SBA Dhekellia Cyprus x2, Waterbeach, Civi Street 1988. Retired from VOSA 2007.
Registration date : 2009-07-28

No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6   No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime4/4/2022, 16:08

Hi, I'm not a specialist in this area.

Seems what you seek is NOT digitised!  Others maybe able to help you!

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4448408


https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14378


Alan
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steve
LE Maj
LE Maj
steve


Number of posts : 954
Age : 73
Localisation : near Cuxhaven
Cap Badge : Royal Signals + Royal Engineers
Places Served : Verden-Aller + Willich + Iserlohn + Hameln
Registration date : 2010-02-14

No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6   No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime5/4/2022, 10:52

Welcome MNort

Staumühle Camp Truppenübungsplatz 92 Internment Camp later 5 Civilian Internment Camp was under command 1st Corps District, not my subject however can help with the British troops that administered and guarded the camp.

29 May 45 – HQ Royal Artillery 3rd Infantry Division was responsible relieving the US Army

5 Jun 45 – 92nd (7th Battalion Loyals) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA with all batteries

10 Jun 45 – 112th (7th Durham Light Infantry) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA with all batteries

16 Aug 45 – HQ Royal Artillery 52nd (Lowland) Infantry Division relieved HQ Royal Artillery 3rd Infantry Division and redesignated 52nd Divisional Artillery Brigade – to 19 Apr 46

15 Aug 45 – 108th (9th Battalion Green Howards) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA with all batteries – with 304 Battery 54th (Queen’s Own Royal Glasgow Yeomanry) Anti-Tank Regiment RA – with C Troop 474 (Independent) Searchlight Battery RA to 1 Nov 45 then E Troop 5/2 Searchlight Battery RA – to 31 Mar 46

15 Nov 46 – 80th (Lowland - City of Glasgow) Field Regiment RA – to 29 Jan 46

24 Nov 45 – 79th (Lowland) Field Regiment RA less 457 Battery

17 Feb 46 – 2nd Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers

19 Apr 46 – 11th Battalion Royal Scots Fusiliers of 147th (West Riding) Infantry Brigade

3 Jul 46 – 4th Battalion Welch Regiment of 147th (West Riding) Infantry Brigade – to 14 Oct 46

Understand civilian guards then took over as guards

Best of luck with your research

https://britisharmyingermany.com (under construction)

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https://britisharmyingermany.com
Pborn4
Brig
Brig
Pborn4


Number of posts : 526
Localisation : Between Hannover and Herford, off all main routes
Cap Badge : Not even a reservist now - have been Pborn3
Places Served : Oswestry 1965, Paderborn to 1971, NE Dist, Munsterlager from 1974, Sennelager (1976 to 2012)
Registration date : 2016-12-16

No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6   No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime6/4/2022, 03:00

I was Paddyb the original author above and had read some of those documents at PRO Kew as it was when doing separate research in 1989/92 - those refs were taken from my notes at the time - there is one typo on my part under the FO(Foreign Office) files: 1032/7921032/797 should read 1032/792, 1032/797.

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Pborn4
Brig
Brig
Pborn4


Number of posts : 526
Localisation : Between Hannover and Herford, off all main routes
Cap Badge : Not even a reservist now - have been Pborn3
Places Served : Oswestry 1965, Paderborn to 1971, NE Dist, Munsterlager from 1974, Sennelager (1976 to 2012)
Registration date : 2016-12-16

No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6   No. 5 Civilian Internment Camp, Staumuhler, 1945-6 Icon_minitime7/4/2022, 02:50

For MNort:  There was discussion of the Civil Internment Camp(s) in  Parliament - the Lords in 1947
https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/1947/feb/12/german-prisoners-of-war-and-internees

and  as a Police matter at  
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/1946-05-29/debates/315e52f4-3900-462b-a44c-3ad22bdc2af3/PoliceForce(Awards)

possible that the second of these two debates will answer your query

Whilst initially the prisoners interned at Staumühle (numbers in the table attached to the 1946 document) were guarded by the units mentioned above
-  the LAA and Searchlight units were employed to illuminate the peripheries
-  Infantry and RA Units (who had handed in their guns) were preparing for demob, provided the guards  on walkways between the compounds and were based on the main HQ Building (still there -  but now houses the first German Borstal /Justiz Vollzugs Anstalt (JVA) !)
A Quick Reaction Force was based in Horrocks Barracks Neuhaus (the Schloss itself!) and could be called to answer any alarms that needed extra manpower.  (The Staumühle Strasse is recognised today as the emergency access route to the JVA - juvenile prison by the German Interior Ministry
and cannot be blocked) The RA Units were initially accommodated at Delbrück but were moved to Balaclava Barracks Schlangen on the East side of  the Range - the demonstration battery was also stationed there and supported various infantry combat training/fire power demos.)


The Civilian Guards mentioned by Steve (above) as well as the Governor (Mr Rogers named named in the Lord's Debate)) had been recruited by the Home Office and were effectively within the HM Prison system Their work started in the spring of 1946 - the army was reducing as soldiers were going home.  This had an impact on the prisoners - up until then the internal guard (mil) had fed them using military rations and what little could be obtained from local resources.  When the Home Office/Prison service took over they (as UK based assets) had to cover guard duties as well as catering for prisoners and own staff to cover - from local purchase from markets/farmers.

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