BFG/BAOR/RAFG Locations
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BFG/BAOR/RAFG Locations

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 SOXMIS STORIES

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+37
roadie3124
alan8376
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serg051060
Soxmis
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AuthorMessage
JPW
Let Gen
Let Gen


Number of posts : 1119
Age : 80
Localisation : Berkshire
Cap Badge : REME
Places Served : Rotenburg Ploen Lippstadt Hamm Wetter Minden Munster Bielefeldt Dusseldorf
Registration date : 2008-11-09

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PostSubject: Re: SOXMIS STORIES   SOXMIS STORIES - Page 5 Icon_minitime30/10/2017, 08:45

Diefenbaker

Welcome, an interesting project, in the past there have been some ex RMP contributors with a knowledge of the Helmstedt checkpoint on this site, hopefully someone can help.
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davwood
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 27
Localisation : Swadlincote
Cap Badge : RCT/RMP
Places Served : Taunton. Hameln, Herford, Werl, NI, Berlin, Helmstedt, London, Rhodesia.
Registration date : 2007-08-27

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PostSubject: Re: SOXMIS STORIES   SOXMIS STORIES - Page 5 Icon_minitime28/11/2017, 23:31

I served at ACD 1976-78. Soxmis did have to report to checkpoint Alpha on their way to and from the soviet zone.
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diefenbaker
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 24
Localisation : Germany
Registration date : 2017-10-10

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PostSubject: Re: SOXMIS STORIES   SOXMIS STORIES - Page 5 Icon_minitime3/12/2017, 15:24

davwood

Thank you for confirm my assumption.

Wolfgang
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diefenbaker
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 24
Localisation : Germany
Registration date : 2017-10-10

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PostSubject: Re: SOXMIS STORIES   SOXMIS STORIES - Page 5 Icon_minitime4/1/2018, 11:51

davwood

another question, only SMM / BAOR or also SMM / USAREUR and MMS / CCFA?

Wolfgang
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davwood
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 27
Localisation : Swadlincote
Cap Badge : RCT/RMP
Places Served : Taunton. Hameln, Herford, Werl, NI, Berlin, Helmstedt, London, Rhodesia.
Registration date : 2007-08-27

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PostSubject: Re: SOXMIS STORIES   SOXMIS STORIES - Page 5 Icon_minitime5/1/2018, 22:52

I only ever processed Soxmis through checkpoint Alpha. I cant help you re the other soviet missions I'm afraid.

Regards dave
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diefenbaker
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 24
Localisation : Germany
Registration date : 2017-10-10

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PostSubject: Re: SOXMIS STORIES   SOXMIS STORIES - Page 5 Icon_minitime6/1/2018, 12:50

davwood

Thank you, no need to say sorry.
Your negative answer is also a valuable information.

Wolfgang
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diefenbaker
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 24
Localisation : Germany
Registration date : 2017-10-10

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PostSubject: Re: SOXMIS STORIES   SOXMIS STORIES - Page 5 Icon_minitime19/1/2018, 15:09

Hi Dave,

some still believe that soviet members of the missions with US and French HQ used checkpoint Alpha, maybe not on a regular base but occasionally. Is it possible that they were processed by your French or US mates there?

regards Wolfgang
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davwood
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 27
Localisation : Swadlincote
Cap Badge : RCT/RMP
Places Served : Taunton. Hameln, Herford, Werl, NI, Berlin, Helmstedt, London, Rhodesia.
Registration date : 2007-08-27

SOXMIS STORIES - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: SOXMIS STORIES   SOXMIS STORIES - Page 5 Icon_minitime19/1/2018, 22:49

I would say yes, they would be as they would be processed by the appropriate area they were attached to

Regards Dave
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davwood
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 27
Localisation : Swadlincote
Cap Badge : RCT/RMP
Places Served : Taunton. Hameln, Herford, Werl, NI, Berlin, Helmstedt, London, Rhodesia.
Registration date : 2007-08-27

SOXMIS STORIES - Page 5 Empty
PostSubject: Re: SOXMIS STORIES   SOXMIS STORIES - Page 5 Icon_minitime22/1/2018, 23:32

Hi diefenbaker,

I have asked on an RMP site I am a member of as to whether any other soviet missions passed through checkpoint Alpha. Everyone who replied only remember soxmis passing through

Regards Dave
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diefenbaker
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 24
Localisation : Germany
Registration date : 2017-10-10

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PostSubject: Re: SOXMIS STORIES   SOXMIS STORIES - Page 5 Icon_minitime25/4/2018, 23:33

As i know from US sources the CINC GSFG (soviet) was invited by the CINC USAREUR in his HQ.

Does anybody know whether CINC GSFG ever visited the BAOR HQ?

Regards Wolfgang
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GreenSlime7330
Private
Private


Number of posts : 2
Registration date : 2021-09-01

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PostSubject: Re: SOXMIS STORIES   SOXMIS STORIES - Page 5 Icon_minitime1/9/2021, 23:36

I've just stumbled across this thread and I can give a different perspective.  As it was all a long time ago I don't think that I'll have Special Branch knocking on my door for breaking the Official Secrets Act.  😊

I served in the Intelligence Corps and one of my postings was to Intelligence and Security Group (Germany) in Rheindahlen.  I worked in Counter-Intelligence Wing, in a section called S3 and our task was counter-Soxmis ops.  We worked with various overt and covert agencies.  19 Support Platoon RMP was the well known one of course, but there were others.  We also liaised with our American and French counterparts who were targeting their own Soviet missions.

whitemicebaor wrote:
Stephen, more importantly if the Soxmis gained intelligence and they were not being followed by marked RMP Vehicles who was following them? perhaps they were given enough rope!!! Dead letter box's !!! Thought provoking heh ;-) 007 eat your heart out.

The covert unit that targeted Soxmis was 28 Intelligence Section, Int Corps, based in Herford.  They were the Corps' specialist surveillance unit in Germany.  Soxmis was their main target but they were often given other tasking, usually counter-terrorist work.

Most people thought that Herford Mil 2222 was the RMP and we were happy for them to think that, but it was actually the duty NCO at 28 Int Sect.

Stephen Lock wrote:
Okay, if SOXMIS gained intelligence and were not followed by marked RMP, then SOXMIS might have gained intelligence NATO didn't want them to have.

By ensuring SOXMIS only gained intelligence NATO wanted them to have it seems to me the whole exercise of 'open espionage' was, as mentioned earlier, right out of the pages of Spy vs Spy.

Sometimes Soxmis did have successes in gaining int that we didn't want them to have.  They didn't just target BAOR and RAFG, they were also interested in the Bundeswher, Dutch and Belgian units in their area of responsibility.  SMLM-F and SMLM-BB had their moments too.  On balance, the Soviets were probably not as successful as the Western missions in East Germany, though it's impossible to be certain because there were probably some successful ops by the Soviet missions that we didn't know about.  Of course, both the Western powers and the Soviets would have taken the view that they got more useful int from their own missions than the opposition did, which was why both sides were happy for the missions to continue.

Stephen Lock wrote:
Wouldn't it have just been easier to exchange information?  But of course, the Cold War was an era of rampant paranoia and the arms race (I get a nuclear missile head, you get two, so I get four, so you get six....)

Alternatively, if SOXMIS gained intelligence that was allowed, what use would such intelligence be?  Isn't the whole point of gaining intelligence on the Other Guy to gain an upper hand over him?  Or forestall his gaining an upper hand over you, at least.

Occasionally the missions did carry out genuine liaison functions, but that was no longer their main task.   For example, the Soviet missions were one of the back channels for information that helped to de-escalate the Soviet reaction to Exercise Able Archer 83.

Stephen Lock wrote:
Interesting that Soxmis types had ration cards for the NAAFI...now that's Detente!! LOL

They were also issued with BFG petrol coupons for their vehicles.  One of our tasks at S3 was to receive all of the coupons that they'd used in the previous month and analyse how they'd been used.  It sounds boring and mostly it was, but in one occasion we spotted that they'd been using fuel that they'd had issued from GSFG and selling the coupons for profit.  That snippet of information led to another agency developing a useful humint scource.

roadie3124 wrote:
On the other hand, maybe they were all spetsnaz.

The drivers and some of the officers were.  Other officers were GRU and there would always have been a KGB officer masquerading as a member of the mission.  We were never able to identify the KGB officer, even the other members of the mission wouldn't have known and he could have been posing as any rank within the mission.  The ranks and branch of service insignia that the other Soxmis personnel wore were not always genuine either.

If it looked like WarPac was gearing up to turn the Cold War hot the Soviet missions would have been very busy, of course.  There was a plan known as Op Maddington to find, arrest and intern the mission personnel in the run up to hostilities.

diefenbaker likes this post

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diefenbaker
Sgt
Sgt


Number of posts : 24
Localisation : Germany
Registration date : 2017-10-10

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PostSubject: Re: SOXMIS STORIES   SOXMIS STORIES - Page 5 Icon_minitime2/9/2021, 08:58

Hi GreenSlime,

I appreciate highly that you could overcome the UK “keep the secrets” policy. When I was in contact with BRIXMIS members they acted like the cold war is still going on. USMLM members were much more open.
I am very much interested in details of all six missions because this situation was unique and they were successful keeping the cold war cold.

Wolfgang
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