623 Mixed Service Organisation (MSO) Bielefeld BFPO 39

The MSO unit in Bielefeld was based in Harrogate barracks opposite Mossbank barracks which was home to 1 Corps Troops Workshop, 20 Electronic Workshops REMEM and at one time 25 Transport & Movement Regiment RCT.

Like most MSO units 623 was mainly made up of displaced eastern european citizens who could not, for whatever reason, return to there homeland due to soviet occupation. Some simply did not want to return.

A few people I knew there were Latvian or Lithuanian who had been in the German forces fighting Soviet Russia during world war 2. Others had been Free Polish forces who had served as part of the allied free forces in Britain, Italy, Africe etc and did not want to return either.

Later, as many became too old or retired, locally employed civilians, Germans and ex pat British citizens (as well as Turks, Greeks etc) joined various MSOs and MCTGs.

Bielefeld had a small nucleus of ex RCT and RAOC guys who opted for local discharge (Girls/Wifes or Beer and nightlife) choosing to sign up as drivers or watchmen.

623 was equipped with 4 tonne Bedfords and 10 tonne Foden units and the ten tonnys often had longer hauls with overnight stays at external units, a good extra income for the driver.

The security used to be provided by the drivers themself who wore navy blue battledress, 37 pattern webbing, navy berets with an RCT capbadge however, the centre was not the 'EIIR' cypher but a disc which read 'MSO'. They were armed with L1A1 Slrs. The unit had its own Officers and NCOs with a unique rank system of small silver bars for NCOs and larger bars for their officers. Their last OC was Karlos Buss of LAtvian or Lithuanian descent and a nice all rounder.

Their affiliation was to the transport and movement regiment with the CO/RSM being in overall command of the unit. They did have, however, a lot of autonimy but greatly respected their British counterparts.

During the mid eighties the guards were supplied by 1 corps tps wksp and later on the MSO watchmen could opt to become ACWs - Armed Civilian Watchment, armed with 9mm Browning pistols - part of the German Guard Service equal to the Northern Irish Guard Service (NIGS) and MoD Guard Service.

Harrogate Barracks sported playing fields, a small workshop and accomodation for single men who required it in form of the usual blocks. they had asmall social club and a cookhouse which did a better breakfast then many a regular unit!

Harrogate Barracks was, like Richmond and Ripon barracks, handed back to the German authorities and is now a housing estate.

Martin, in my day in there was an MSO Block in Ripon Bks itself, we had a lot of Mojo's in the early '70's

We had MSOs doing guard duty in some of our barracks back in the 50s and 60s. A lot of them looked like first day recruits fresh out of the QM, but there was one in particular who was the exception. His blue BD looked like it had been tailored and the creases were sharp. His webbing was perfectly blancoed and his boots were spit shone to a degree that would have satisfied the most picky RSM.

Officers always got an enthusiastic big five when driving through and they were all extremely diligent. Guess they were happy to be where they were and not from whence they came. I think they served us well.

The senior MSO guy in Ripon had been a Colonel in the Czech Army I was told. He was smart as a carrot.

I remember that there was a small 'cleaning' patrol in Ripon, 2 Germans, 2 old poles who used to do 'broom drill' and say kurva and borsche moi a lot whilst standing to attention a lot....

They lived on the top floor of the block nearest the guardroom, where the hairdresser was.

The "MOJOs" that got my admiration were the Tank Transporter boys, grinding along in those Thoneycroft Antars. Brews and meals set up at pre - arranged laybys, adhering rigidly to their timetables. Yes, they'd been doing the job for decades but even so, they were a joy to behold !

One of those 'Mighty Antars' is a gate guard - silent sentry at the main entrance of 8 Regt RLC, Catterick Bks Bielefeld.

How big is the Army presence in Bielefeld now Martin?

When we overnighted at Reinsehlen on the way to and from Soltau we used to see what I assume were MSO dog handlers patrolling the perimeter (they weren't in uniform). I don't know which looked tougher and more dangerous, the dogs or the handlers.

And speaking of the tank transport companies, when did they phase out the Diamond 'T' tractors and replace them with Antars? Also I seem to recall they used Scammels as well. Is that right?

jim wrote:

How big is the Army presence in Bielefeld now Martin?

Not as big as it used to be Jim! Take a look here:-

http://www.hive-bfg.co.uk/Bielefeld.htm

Ah thanks for that link soprano.

Yeah, Bielefeld is a small garrison now. One Regiment and, well, the remnants of an LAD and army legal aid/prosecution agency.

On a very dark note.

The SPD, Germanys LAbour, wanted British troops out (as well as American etc) asap. The local elected party in Bielefeld was also SPD and also wished for the prescence to diminish - many locals worked for or sustained their livelihood from the then BFG presence.

Many stated that if the Brits left they would suffer [financial] hardship. All of this was ignored by the council/government.

When troops did leave and massed in Gutersloh, the Bielefeld economy crashed and unemployment rocketed, something my Brther mentioned has not yet recovered...

Themaadone wrote:

One of those 'Mighty Antars' is a gate guard - silent sentry at the main entrance of 8 Regt RLC, Catterick Bks Bielefeld.

The Antar just had "the look" for me. The ultimate "Big Boy's Toy" !

(Thanks for the links, Mike 2817).

That's sad Martin. dis you ever hear about the Bielefeld doesn't exist conspiracy theory?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bielefeld_Conspiracy

I looked at a few posts of you guys and thought I tell you a few little things.First of all I am a grandaughter of a lad who used to be in the british forces and were stationed last in Detmold.If anyone knew him it would be appreciated if you would send me a message,his name was Joseph Hughan and during the time he served he was a sergeant and afterwards a civie working in Detmold.I am a half german half english woman who lives in Detmold and is involved in daily army life since my husband is serving for the british troops in Germany.He is stationed in Alanbrooke Bks. in Paderborn and is part of 5 Rifles who used to be 2LI.My husband thou original is from 4 Rifles which used to be 2RGJ.Everything was changed thou a few years back into the Rifles...the so called Light Division.The camps in Detmold have been closed for many years but the original touches still remain.They were building schools and healthcentres there.The original Sir John Mogg school thou still exsits.The NAAFI has left his original place and has moved closer to town.Families from Sennelager,Schloss Neuhaus,Guetersloh and Rinteln live in Detmold.Some of the flats and houses still remain.Many camps in Germany have been closed ,by example Muenster and Osnabrueck.Muenster these days is a NATO camp where Belgium,Germany,USA and UK troops work together.Headquarters will be shut down within the next 2 years and will be moved into the Paderborn -Sennelager area.Catterick Bks in Bielefeld is still around,where we got many medical facilities for the Paderborn and Bielefeld garrison.We also now got in Sennelager a military court and those rumours that british troops will leave Germany I am afraid are partly true.Many will go but the Bielefeld,Paderborn and Sennelager Area will remain until the end and will grow huge,since they move many to us.That will take a while thou because they just extended the contracts for another 10 years!I hope I was a lil help and if there are any queastions about remainings feel free to ask.
Love Trish

I have fond memories from my time in Bielefeld in the early 1970s of an excellent cafe/restaurant just beyond Richmond Barracks run by a Jugoslav former MSO. the pleasure was enhanced by the fact that was a special (discounted) price list menu for British Forces compared to that on offer to civilians.

Quote :

Their last OC was Karlos Buss of Latvian or Lithuanian descent and a nice all rounder.Their affiliation was to the transport and movement regiment with the CO/RSM being in overall command of the unit.

'Charlie' Buss (great guy) was the last Chief Superintendant. 623 MTU MSO was Commanded by a Major RCT with a WO2 (RQMS) as his No 2.

Harrogate Barracks had a Superintendants Mess (equating to a Sgts Mess) which was the location for many merry nights (and day-time) sessions.
They also had their own Orthodox Church which was well attended by MSO from throughout BFG. As I recollect, 6th January was the main event (I believe their New Year) and remember attending what was an all-day Service and Celebration.
In the 1970s/1980s a number of the elderly MSO died in the Barracks - I remember one (who worked for the RQMS) being found dead in his room. Post-Mortum revealed he had TB so for 6 months all those who had contact with him had to be regularly screened. Everything in his room was removed and burned.

Many of the guys had lived in the Blocks for so long they were resistant to change - their room was their home. Some were still sleeping on straw palliases and had to be encouraged to change to Foam mattresses. They were however self-sufficient in many ways - they had allotments in the Barracks for growing their vegetables; chickens were bred for eggs and meat. At Brixton Bks (Richmond Bks) they had a Pig Farm. Whatever surplus they had was sold to supplement their income (or spend in their well-run Canteen).

Also living in Harrogate Bks was a small force of Labourers from the MCLG in Schloss Neuhaus. These guys were allocated to work for Units in the Bielefeld area and therefore were accommodated in Harrogate Bks to avoid the need for travel to and from Schloss Neuhaus.

When the Barracks was eventually handed over to the German Authorities one Block was retained to allow MSO/CWG somewhere to live until they had found alternative accommodation. Most of the guys had died or moved to alternative accommodaton but there were 5 or 6 who were effectively 'homeless' and they were allowed to stay rather than become a burden on the Local economy.

There still a few 'survivors' (mainly Brits) working for the Garrison Transport Office in Gutersloh and the last Chief Clerk now works for GLSU Gutersloh.

Harrogate Bks no longer exists - a new housing estate (Harrogate Park) has replaced it:


View looking directly at what was the Main Entrance.

When I read some of this stuff I wonder if the Poles, Latvians etc. etc. were not better off before the war was won. Many lovely Latvian woman here in Spain, but enough of that.

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