British Army Units over 65 years in Germany

FM Montgomery was keen that APTC were present in all units in his command (21 AG)  to encourage personal fitness and supervise sporting activities.  VE Day (8 May 1945) marked the formal occupation of Germany, the creation of BAOR, the transition to peace, and the establishment of training organisations to strengthen and formalise miliary careers.  The BAOR School of Physical and Recreational Training (SP&RT) had found accommodation in SENNE II  (Dempsey Barracks, Sennelager) to have their gymnasium ready for use on the cessation of hostilities.  Co-located in the Barracks were the ATS depot and Band,  and a Detention Barracks operated by the Corps of Military Police. By 1954 a purpose built "Harvey" Gymnasium had been built for them in Normandy Barracks  (SENNE I) and they moved in as a full part of the All Arms Training Centre.   The last formal training course for AIPT is running at the moment and the formal trg facility will close during  2015.  The Gymnasium will continnue to operate under RAPTC supervision as a fitness facility for  Normandy Barracks occupants.  (There is a Rehabilitation establishment in the Barracks).

Paddy

Thanks for this

Webmaster Steve and I had a friendly argument a little while ago on the subject of which unit had been in the same place in BAOR the longest.

My money eventually went on the Vets (also in Sennelager). You have provided a definitive alternative answer.

RAVC in BAOR

1944/45 RAVC  (Dogs and Remount) were at Brussels - dogs being used for Guard and deterrent duties on storage areas and at Antwerp docks. and providing vet services for horses and cattle - msny withot owners.

Spring 45  were moved up to Münster Westfalen - marking time,

War Dogs Unit (and Vets) reached Sennelager in November 1945 to occupy the former Munitions Anstalt lines at the East end of the Camp (Senne I / Normandy Barracks).  Many handlers were recruited from DPs and were the basis of the MSO (Mixed Service Org)- Up to then the barracks accn had been occupied by the female (slave) workers from the Ammo Factory who were being repatriated (the West end of Normandy Bks (Bielefelderstasse/Railhead) had been accn for the Russian PoW waiting repatriation).

Administration of the All Arms Training Centre, Sennelager was by a QM post as "Camp Commandant" housed in  what would be named Crocker Barracks - since elements of RA and RAC Gunnery Schools and Sch of Infantry were establishing their cadres on the Range.

There they stayed under a number of names incl 1 War Dogs Training School, Defence Animal Support Unit and in latter times  102 Military Working Dogs Regiment RAVC ( and actually an asset of 102 Log Sp Bde based at Guetersloh).

Paddy

Thank you, now all the On site Bloodhounds have to do is suss out where the Vets were based in Munster in Summer 1945.

Have checked the 1 Corps War Dairies/Historical Reports from 1 May 45 onwards and regrettably no mention of the War Dogs Unit.

Need to point out that Münster and Paderborn were under command 9th US Army until the takeover by the 3rd Infantry Division on 13 Jun 45. The rear HQ of 9th US Army was in the future Oxford Barracks Münster with the main HQ located in Braunschweig, relieved by the 5th Infantry Division on 18 Jun 45.

8 May 45 – Main HQ 21st Army Group were in Süchteln west of Krefeld, moving to Hotel Königshof Kurpark Bad Oeynhausen on 3 Jun 45, the HQ services were in Harewood Barracks Herford, so looks the Sennelager Training Centre would have started in early Jun 45.

Regarding the oldest British Army Formation, this must be the former 7th Armoured Brigade, starting off as 22nd Armoured Brigade in Schleswig-Holstein after WW2, redesignated 7th Armoured Brigade on 31 Dec 46, having continuous service in Germany until the redesignation to 7th Infantry Brigade in 2014 and the move to UK.

hi does anyone remember lad reme 6th arm.div r.signals bunde bfpo22

Pooly

Welcome.

Note you served in 5 Armd Wksp in Hamm. My father was OIC the A Vehicle Repar Workshop in the mid 50s.

steve wrote:

Have checked the 1 Corps War Dairies/Historical Reports from 1 May 45 onwards and regrettably no mention of the War Dogs Unit.

Need to point out that Münster and Paderborn were under command 9th US Army until the takeover by the 3rd Infantry Division on 13 Jun 45.  The rear HQ of 9th US Army was in the future Oxford Barracks Münster with the main HQ located in Braunschweig, relieved by the 5th Infantry Division on 18 Jun 45.

8 May 45 – Main HQ 21st Army Group were in Süchteln west of Krefeld, moving to Hotel Königshof Kurpark Bad Oeynhausen on 3 Jun 45, the HQ services were in Harewood Barracks Herford, so looks the Sennelager Training Centre would have started in early Jun 45.

Need to correct my earlier post

25 July 1945 - 21 Army Group Training Centre - Clerks School
27 August 1945 - Camouflage School added
31 August 1945 - redesignated British Army of the Rhine Training Centre - Physical Training School added
27 November 1945 - War Dogs Training School added

Source 1st Corps District Order of Battle dates shown are ammendment dates the arrival may be earlier...also:

http://www.k9history.com/great-britains-dog-services-1945.htm

Yet another correction!

21 June 1945 - 21 Army Group Training Centre opened at Kurpark Bad Lippspringe but not yet for training courses...

Going:

https://bfgnet.de/bfg-noticeboard/chiron-veterinary-servicea.html


Going;

https://bfgnet.de/rebasing/locations/northluffenham/all-pages.html


thats the Plan !

The BAOR PT School closed a little while ago, with the departure of the Vets the end is nighe.

Thin end of the wedge - the following stalwarts are still in position;

Sennelager:
Range Control Sennelager, Defence Fire and Rescue Service (directly descended from 95 Army Fire Brigade), RADC (who still suffer dodgers avoiding Inspections), 41 AEC, remnants of 1 (BR) Corps Inf (G3), Army Post Office (no longer RE !) The School of P&RT is no longer active but the Instrs have transferred their skills to the Personnel Recovery Centre: http://www.britishlegion-paderborn.com/brydon-house.html
http://www.britishlegion-paderborn.com/wymg.html

See here for current BFG news:

http://www.army.mod.uk/structure/27886.aspx

https://bfgnet.de/bielefeld/

http://www.sixth-sense.de/

http://www.sixth-sense.de/?p=3421

Parting Docus - no Clearance Chit yet

https://www.forces.net/news/70-years-british-forces-germany

a compilation

The above was written by Nosher,Tasmania please advise.

Nosher again,who,when faced by a request to access an invitation to join in was asked for my Title I did not know I had one.I have a user name and a password and am male.is this enough?

steve wrote:

Yet another correction!

21 June 1945 - 21 Army Group Training Centre opened at Kurpark Bad Lippspringe but not yet for training courses...

However;

Bad Oeynhausen 21 Army Group Trg Directive No 3 (21 A Gp/2292/Ops (Trg&Int) 1 Jun 45:

Brig FRG Matthews (24375), DSO        Appointed Comdt AATC wef 1 Jun 45

(probably in WO171/3940)

(in a past life pre-war he had been OIC Weapon Training Wing at Sandhurst)

Better bet would be GHQ Troops WO 171/4680 1945, it is on my shopping list for when the Corps Districts are finished

As at 1 Jun 2019

41 Army Education Centre (Normandy Sennelager /Alanbrooke Paderborn/Normandy Sennelager) closes June 2019

Range Control Sennelager opened 3 Apr 45 (date for service 8 May 45 - for calculating Long Service of Civil employees (and bonuses)) still rolling along - the Ranges stay.

Amph Engr Sqn RE rehoused from Bielefeld to Talbot Bks inside Normandy Bks shortly