Former Barracks of B.A.O.R today!

Quote :

I recognise the pics of Quebec Barracks, I was posted there from 89 to 92 attatched to 23 Engineers, happy days. As far as the CET goes, well I never drove one but I was posted to two units who had CET's (The other being BATUS) and yes they were designed to swim but as far as I can remember they were never 'kitted out' to swim, in fact they spent most of the time parked up waiting for repair. I believe they were made of aluminium (for the largely none existent swimming role) which did indeed make them rather lightweight.

Can't find my refs quickly but I think CET was around 18 tonnes in weight.
And the TA unit I was with had a Regular transferred to a CET trials unit.
It was always said he had been sent there to invent a use for it.

Quebec Bks. Osnabruck 1998 21 Eng Regt RE in residence.

Upper Pic.

Access road to main gate, Bks on left.
Earlier, in the pre-autobahn era, this road ran from Evesburg, behind the location of the camera, where the trolley bus terminus was beside the Gasthaus which is still there. A frequent service ran to the town centre, the fare was 10 Pfennigs, about
1p in current money.

Lower Pic.

MT sheds taken from a location to the right of the row of offices & stores, with
accommodation Block 8 behind. Just visible to the left centre is a trophy of the Gulf War raised on a section of overbridge plinth. This is difficult to identify but it has some similarities to a Soviet T54/T55.

Kevin

An interesting new thread

Note your comments regarding Clifton Barracks Minden with interest.

Am I correct in thinking that Westminster Barracks home to 11 Field Workshop in the 1960s has been totally demolished? Indeed looking at Google Earth a building marked as Beauty Complex GMBH seems to be on the site of the main office block adjacent to the old entrance.

If you are looking for other projects, there are quite a number wh served in Munster over the years. A selection of photos of the old Loddenheide complex, home to three major units, the REME Workshop and an Aviation Squadron in my time would be much appreciated I am sure Understand it s now a mix of light industry and housing.

"john boy" wrote:

http://www.forgottenhistory.co.uk/Pages/CampPhotographs.asp check this site out

My goodness! I took a look at this site and in the 'hohne' one there front and center is my old flat, MB63 flat 5, if those walls could talk! Ian .

Hi all,

Interesting St Katharinen Kirche; I was looking last night at old photos I was standing in almost the same position on 15 Dec 1951, just metal frame work of tower, the building on the left did not exist in 1951
Note on back of my print is taken from NAAFI; what is the history of the building used as NAAFI and when was it closed

Tony

cartav wrote:

Quebec Bks. Osnabruck 1998 21 Eng Regt RE in residence.

Upper Pic.

Access road to main gate, Bks on left.
Earlier, in the pre-autobahn era, this road ran from Evesburg, behind the location of the camera, where the trolley bus terminus was beside the Gasthaus which is still there. A frequent service ran to the town centre, the fare was 10 Pfennigs, about
1p in current money.

Lower Pic.

MT sheds taken from a location to the right of the row of offices & stores, with
accommodation Block 8 behind. Just visible to the left centre is a trophy of the Gulf War raised on a section of overbridge plinth. This is difficult to identify but it has some similarities to a Soviet T54/T55.

Hello Cartav, the upper pic looks more like the side gate entrance which was on the imediate left of frame just out of shot. We usually used this gate for mass exodus when going on exercise. I drove through that gate a few times and it's a bit of a squeeze with a trailor, however it's been a while and I may have my geography wrong. It was the first unit I went to that had the 6x6 Bedford TM which was a huge improvement on the AEC 'Knocker' and easily capable of pulling a trailor with a broken down CET.

The lower pic does indeed look like the MT, but all the sheds were the same... it's difficult to tell. The Gulf trophy was 'liberated' by us, the CO gave the go ahead for the T55 'trophy' while we were in theatre and although I know it was nicked and lined up with our vehicles at Al Jubail for shipment back to Osnabruck, I never actually saw it mounted on that plinth, which by the look of it is an avlb scissor bridge.

[quote="burgess720"]Hi all,

Interesting St Katharinen Kirche; I was looking last night at old photos I was standing in almost the same position on 15 Dec 1951, just metal frame work of tower, the building on the left did not exist in 1951
Note on back of my print is taken from NAAFI; what is the history of the building used as NAAFI and when was it closed

Tony
[/quote]

'Lo Tony !
Good to hear from you again ! I think I may have already sent you a copy of the Osnabruck town centre but, if not, I'm putting another on screen. Obviously, this is of a later layout than we knew in the 1950's, things outside the town wall have changed. You will remember the Church Army canteen, on Natruper-Tor-Wall. It's gone, there's open space and something called the Stadthaus there. Not the town hall, for that's at fig. 1 now, grandly rebuilt exactly as the 600 year old building the RAF knocked down. I'm at a loss to say where the NAAFI was. We looked for it when half a dozen of us went back around 2000, but no one could tell where it was of or had been. At a guess I would have said it was near the old AKC on Krahn Strasse. Maybe some one else has an idea. The building on the pic to the left of the St Katherinen Kirche ( at fig 11 on the map) is part of the university.

If you have any other pics it would be worthwhile putting them on one of the BAOR sites..... Sites such as this are a historical record of BAOR & BFG. There must be dozens pics which are more than just those of half a dozen squaddies goofing it up in front of the camera. And whilst contributors ( me included !) can go off on a tangent on occasion and post something not entirely relevant, I think it's important to get back to the original theme as soon as possible with memories of this nature.

David

[quote="Wilf"].


Hello Cartav, the upper pic looks more like the side gate entrance which was on the imediate left of frame just out of shot...........

The lower pic does indeed look like the MT, but all the sheds were the same...
[quote]



'Lo Wilf...... thanks for the info ! Much more up tp date than mine !

The road on pic 1 is the one with the main gate sited about 150 yds down into the distance. The houses on the right were built after my time. RHQ offices , or SNCO's quarters can just be seen over the fence. In my day there was an emergency water tank there, too, and I imagine this would still be there. I never knew of a second entrance directly on to this road, the only other gateway was in the bottom left hand corner of the site ( if you stand with your back to the Main Gate Guard House ). It was fairly close to the MTGas pump and, to my knowledge, locked shut and never guarded by squaddies, as a Regt. Duty, though MSOs might have done something there. When the IRA lobbed one or two bits of hate over, I'm told they parked up beside this back entrance.

Pic 2 is certainly of the MT and the Gun Park sheds. The road in the foreground joins up the two main roads which ran the length of the camp. I marched BHQ Tp lads of 32 LAA Bty along this short stretch every morning from Block 9, behind camera, to our Tp parade area which was beside the end of the shed.

pete26 wrote:

A Chieftain AVRE was never developed IIRC as you needed a manual clutch for digging emplacements etc. So hence the CET. Which I never got to drive.

.

31 Armoured Engineer Squadron operating a Chieftain AVRE in Canada

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armoured_Vehicle_Royal_Engineers

Chieftain tank variants

The Willich Chieftain AVRE entered service in 1987. This vehicle was designed by Capt D Clegg MBE RE. 12 Chieftain Gun Tanks were converted by 32 Armoured Engineer Regiment and 21 Engineer Base Workshop of the Royal Engineers under the direction of Lt Col JF Johnson RE based in the German town of Willich, hence its name

The Chieftain AVRE entered service in 1994. 48 units were produced by Vickers Defence Systems from Chieftan Gun Tanks provided from MoD Reserves.

[quote="cartav"]

burgess720 wrote:

Hi all,

Interesting St Katharinen Kirche; I was looking last night at old photos I was standing in almost the same position on 15 Dec 1951, just metal frame work of tower, the building on the left did not exist in 1951
Note on back of my print is taken from NAAFI; what is the history of the building used as NAAFI and when was it closed

Tony
[/quote]

'Lo Tony !
Good to hear from you again ! I think I may have already sent you a copy of the Osnabruck town centre but, if not, I'm putting another on screen. Obviously, this is of a later layout than we knew in the 1950's, things outside the town wall have changed. You will remember the Church Army canteen, on Natruper-Tor-Wall. It's gone, there's open space and something called the Stadthaus there. Not the town hall, for that's at fig. 1 now, grandly rebuilt exactly as the 600 year old building the RAF knocked down. I'm at a loss to say where the NAAFI was. We looked for it when half a dozen of us went back around 2000, but no one could tell where it was of or had been. At a guess I would have said it was near the old AKC on Krahn Strasse. Maybe some one else has an idea. The building on the pic to the left of the St Katherinen Kirche ( at fig 11 on the map) is part of the university.

If you have any other pics it would be worthwhile putting them on one of the BAOR sites..... Sites such as this are a historical record of BAOR & BFG. There must be dozens pics which are more than just those of half a dozen squaddies goofing it up in front of the camera. And whilst contributors ( me included !) can go off on a tangent on occasion and post something not entirely relevant, I think it's important to get back to the original theme as soon as possible with memories of this nature. So there !


David

Hi David,

Thanks, looking at the map, I appear to have been standing in the middle of Struckmannshofstrasse at the junction with Katharinenstrasse. From my photo which says taken from near the NAAFI it was in a different part to the Globe Cinema.
I dont remember going to the Church Army Canteen in Osnabruck, but they had a nice place on a street corner in Dusseldorf
I will look for any suitable photos
60 years ago is a very long time, but some memories are still very clear
Does anyone know where the "resturant / pub" was near the centre of Osnabruck where an old German with a piano accordian always sang "Du bis meine kleine kartofel"

Tony

burgess720 wrote:

]
Hi David,

Thanks, looking at the map, I appear to have been standing in the middle of Struckmannshofstrasse at the junction with Katharinenstrasse. From my photo which says taken from near the NAAFI it was in a different part to the Globe Cinema.
Does anyone know where the "resturant / pub" was near the centre of Osnabruck where an old German with a piano accordian always sang "Du bis meine kleine kartofel"

Tony

That bit about Struckmannshofstrasse seems to ring bells...... in the back of my mind I'd associated my pic with the town NAAFI, but afterwards thought it was logical for it to be close by the AKC. IF you look at the map, you'll see the outline of the university building on the left corner with Neuer Graben matches the one in my pics. I guess the NAAFI must have been on the opposite site where the L-shaped block is drawn. I don't recall the pub you mention.........many didn't seem to welcome our trade, didn't want to become favourite spots for the Brits, so there was no entertainment that I can remember.

And sorry to niggle about deviations from topics......... Often when it happens, a pace sideways can lead to
something of interest, something which warrants a new topic altogether. Hiding it under the original heading could mean it's not easily accessed for future reference.

"john boy" wrote:

http://www.forgottenhistory.co.uk/Pages/CampPhotographs.asp check this site out

Interesting site, this...... well worth a look. Apart from the fancy uniforms & the WW1 helmets still issued in the 1930's, ( you couldn't shape those to your own interpretation of how head dress should look) the opposition looked a lot like us. I particularly like that file in "Heidelburg Campbell." Little chap down at the end is nearly falling over to see past the rest when doing " Right Dress ". just like I remember the end man usually had to do.

But seeing all those multi-storey bks. built for the Wehrmacht made me curious about how they were laid out internally. Except for a couple of sessions at the Sennelager ranges when we kipped en masse in something much older, but similar, I have no knowledge of how most of BAOR were billetted. I guess we were lucky.
The single storey, bungalow type accommodation at Quebec Bks. Osnabruck seems to have been more user friendly. One block for one tp., each complete with tp office, stores, ablutions, etc. was living space for 20-30 squaddies & JNCOs. If you got on with your room mates, and most did after they'd chopped & changed a bit, there was an incentive to help each other out and you could shut out any you didn't gel with. If there was a need for real peace & quiet, there was a rest room in the block complete with writing tables & easy chairs. Not home from home, but communal living made easier in National Service.

So what was was it like in the multi-storey stuff ? Big barrack rooms or what ?

My experience of "Living In" in the early Sixties were mostly 4 man rooms, the occasional 6 man room and an NCOs Bunk, no 2 man rooms, for obvious reasons. Battery Blocks typically had BCs Office, BKs Office, BSMs Office, Bty Office and 2 Troops Offices on the ground floor. BQMS Stores were normally accommodated in the cellar, Barrack Rooms on the first floor with the Battery Bar in the attic (not too far to stagger!). The fixtures and fittings were original Wehrmacht with rifle racks inset into the walls on the accommodation floor, windows were wooden framed, triple glazed affairs which made them difficult to clean!! Floors were normally of the parquet type, with the odd fag burn, the ablutions consisted of around 20 sinks with 2 baths and 2 showers. Outside the entrance to each block there were large stains on the ground where one threw ones Tea which wasn't consumed on leaving the Cookhouse.

cartav wrote:

So what was was it like in the multi-storey stuff ? Big barrack rooms or what ?

Lived in multi-storey block in Barker Bks (24 Msl Regt Wksp) in the mid '60's, we had the middle floor of the block on the right just past the guard room with our wksp bar and the Sennelager site guard accommodation on the top floor.

A variety of rooms from single, two man, four man, six man and eight man rooms either side of a long corridor the length of the block with toilets and bathrooms at each end and showers in basement, washroom was opposite one of the stair wells (two) there was also a large assembly area on one side of the corridor (approx middle)

No BFBS telly in those days so a lot of time was spent in the wksp bar.....lol or in the snooker room, we had a full size table and library in one of the eight man rooms.

I lived in the very last block, opposite 2 Bty, while waiting for a MQ in '71.

THIS ONE SHOULD BE AGE RESTRICTED.........VIEW WITH CAUTION !!!

One of the two baths, (occupied), in Block 9 Quebec Bks. Most used the showers; I forget how many shower heads there were, probably about 6 for the 26 squaddies. Wash basins, baths & showers, together with a hot water point in the adjacent blanco room, were centrally sited off the corridor which ran the full length of the block. WCs etc. were located by the entrances at each end of the corridor.

Of interest to some who believed that German construction techniques in the late 1940's didn't match up to our own, wash basin taps were fed with flexible, chrome plated pipes and each had an isolator valve. 60 years later we've learned it wasn't a bad system. Similarly, when we at home were still using fuse wire in the electrics, the barrack blocks were fitted with circuit breakers. On the eve of a best dress parade, with irons on extension plugs in every socket, one man would be delegated to take post by the fuse board to stop the circuit breakers popping out.

As an aside, clever, or not so bright, gunners used the baths after a day with the No4 rifles on the range at Vorden. Instead of pouring 8 pints of boiling water down each barrel, which was time consuming, the bath was filled with hot water and half a dozen or so rifles were given a soaking. Don't know what it did to the wood bits, but it left a hard- to- get- rid- of stain of grease around the bath.

cartav wrote:

when we at home were still using fuse wire in the electrics, the barrack blocks were fitted with circuit breakers. On the eve of a best dress parade, with irons on extension plugs in every socket, one man would be delegated to take post by the fuse board to stop the circuit breakers popping out.

and very pleased to hear it, as German plugs had no fuses fitted (mind you neither did earler British round 3 pin plugs) and circuit breakers were in use in larger British premises but not in most homes! cannot think what UK barracks used in the 60/70'

Spiders at Harogate had 13A sockets

My memory is a bit vague on this, but I remember those German extension plugs were T-shaped.......... With the leg of the T into the power source, two ( at least 2, maybe three) extension plugs could be pushed into the first one, and so on until something was built up like Christmas tree. Irons, plus an essential radio, could be plugged into any one of 8 outlets if there were seven T shaped extenders. He who manned the fuse board was kept busy.

[quote="cartav"]

"john boy" wrote:

http://www.forgottenhistory.co.uk/Pages/CampPhotographs.asp check this site out

Not wishing to be smartarse, I had seen those pictures before but could't remember how to get back to them !
Anybody notice, in the Hohne pics, three kameraden sat together, they're wearing puttees. What a strange hangover from WW1, particularly as it's well-documented that the Tommies hated wearing them.

Shelldrake wrote:

My experience of "Living In" in the early Sixties were mostly 4 man rooms, the occasional 6 man room and an NCOs Bunk, no 2 man rooms, for obvious reasons. Battery Blocks typically had BCs Office, BKs Office, BSMs Office, Bty Office and 2 Troops Offices on the ground floor. BQMS Stores were normally accommodated in the cellar, Barrack Rooms on the first floor with the Battery Bar in the attic (not too far to stagger!). The fixtures and fittings were original Wehrmacht with rifle racks inset into the walls on the accommodation floor, windows were wooden framed, triple glazed affairs which made them difficult to clean!! Floors were normally of the parquet type, with the odd fag burn, the ablutions consisted of around 20 sinks with 2 baths and 2 showers. Outside the entrance to each block there were large stains on the ground where one threw ones Tea which wasn't consumed on leaving the Cookhouse.

In 76 Bty block, Brian (and 51 too, I suspect), as you got to the first floor, before you went through the swinging doors, on the left was a short corridor. First left off it was a bathroom, next to it a single bunk and, at the end a double room. My mate Dennis & me got the double room for a while then rank was pulled and we were back with the peasantry !
I don't remember parquet floors, I'm pretty sure they were floorboards which we had to "dry scrub" every morning.
Barker bks was a fair stretch from Paderborn and boredom was a big problem. One craze that sprang up in our bty was to jump from ones barrack room window, landing on the soft earth of the flower beds below. The fun went out that when one cretin attempted to revive the custom in January and found that the flower bed was as soft as the road.

[quote="BigJock"]
A variety of rooms from single, two man, four man, six man and eight man rooms either side of a long corridor the length of the block with toilets and bathrooms at each end and showers in basement, washroom was opposite one of the stair wells (two) there was also a large assembly area on one side of the corridor (approx middle).

I'd forgotten that large "assembly area" you mentioned Jock. Those blocks were so spacious we used to hold parades along the corridors during bad weather.
At the lower end of the second main road, (there were two, running parallel I remember), there was a small garage with offices or stores built above. This building had been damaged by fire at some time. I'd love to know the history of the place, only written on the walls, on the staircase was graffiti in cyrillic script. Makes you wonder if there were Displaced Persons or POWs living in the camp at some stage.

A really good posting this one.

Hi all,

Those of us who were in the "standard" large German built 1930's blocks, were the lucky ones

In Roberts barracks block 12, the basement was G1098 stores at one end and a heap of motorbikes in the other; the ground floor was offices and rooms for HQ staff, who often were on duty outside of normal hours; rest of the unit in higher floors. Guessing our RE squadron was about 150 strong, so no overcrowding

I was lucky 3 of us in one room [NCO's] at the end of the block our window looking out to An Der Nette Heide; 3 of us shared a toilet, and we central heating and double glazing that was real luxury in 1950

The cookhouse was on the other side of the square; Saturday teatime was always kippers and cheese on toast, I was ok I loved them

Yes happy days; cant remember really complaining about anything

Tony

brum wrote:

Shelldrake wrote:

My experience of "Living In" in the early Sixties were mostly 4 man rooms, the occasional 6 man room and an NCOs Bunk, no 2 man rooms, for obvious reasons. Battery Blocks typically had BCs Office, BKs Office, BSMs Office, Bty Office and 2 Troops Offices on the ground floor. BQMS Stores were normally accommodated in the cellar, Barrack Rooms on the first floor with the Battery Bar in the attic (not too far to stagger!). The fixtures and fittings were original Wehrmacht with rifle racks inset into the walls on the accommodation floor, windows were wooden framed, triple glazed affairs which made them difficult to clean!! Floors were normally of the parquet type, with the odd fag burn, the ablutions consisted of around 20 sinks with 2 baths and 2 showers. Outside the entrance to each block there were large stains on the ground where one threw ones Tea which wasn't consumed on leaving the Cookhouse.

In 76 Bty block, Brian (and 51 too, I suspect), as you got to the first floor, before you went through the swinging doors, on the left was a short corridor. First left off it was a bathroom, next to it a single bunk and, at the end a double room. My mate Dennis & me got the double room for a while then rank was pulled and we were back with the peasantry !
I don't remember parquet floors, I'm pretty sure they were floorboards which we had to "dry scrub" every morning.
Barker bks was a fair stretch from Paderborn and boredom was a big problem. One craze that sprang up in our bty was to jump from ones barrack room window, landing on the soft earth of the flower beds below. The fun went out that when one cretin attempted to revive the custom in January and found that the flower bed was as soft as the road.

The Barrack Blocks in Lippstadt were of a different construction to the ones in Paderborn, Brum. IIRC Barker Barracks accommodation was on three floors with a small attic space, the Bty Bars were produced by knocking 2 large barrack rooms into one. When I lived in, in '64, all barracks rooms were of a standard layout, each occupant had a bed, a metal bedside cabinet, a metal locker and a floor mat. Were were also provided with a table and 4 chairs for letter writing etc, any other personal items (if you had any) had to be locked away. The rules were relaxed when the "Wirtschaft Wunder" took off, the Germans were disposing of their furniture to the bulk rubbish by the house load, which was our cue to go round the German areas with a Bedford to collect their unwanted "Moebel"! We could have a new 3 piece suite every month, we even had "Best Barrack Room" competitions. Happy days!