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| Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba | |
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+3Shelldrake Hardrations ritter 7 posters | |
Author | Message |
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ritter Maj
Number of posts : 265 Age : 95 Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M) Registration date : 2011-07-09
| Subject: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 19/5/2013, 04:08 | |
| BAOR(CIB) Attention: Gunners et al The picture below was featured in the Waterloo Region Record, Kitchener, ON in the Saturday edition of the Victoria Day holiday weekend 18-20 May 2013. It was taken at the Royal Canadian Artillery Museum at CFB Shilo, a two-hour drive from Winnipeg in southwestern, Manitoba. The picture provides a rare frontal view of an artillery SP gun called the "Priest" because of its unique pulpit like structure shown on the left side. The pulpit was manned by a gunner with a mounted machine gun. The artillery piece is a 105mm howitzer. The picture is of special interest as the 19th Fd Artillery Regiment RCA was issued this SP during the campaign from DDay through France, Belgium, Holland, and Germany. The 99th Fd Battery of Wingham, North Huron Township, ON was activated from 21 Fd Artillery Regt RCA as part of the 19th Fd in WW2. Ubique Gnr Ritter | |
| | | Hardrations Let Gen
Number of posts : 1074 Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook) Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places Registration date : 2007-12-16
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 19/5/2013, 11:42 | |
| A point of interest to our British readers. The museum in CFB Shilo is rated some where around the Military museum in Ottawa. Unfortunatly it is stuck out in the middle of the praries. The building it is presently in, used to be the gun shed for 3 RCHA. I can well remember doing a few parades in there. It has out standing displays of weapons and military mementos of time past. Shilo is also considered the home post of the R.C.A. At one time it was also the school for the Military Police, the training area for the German Army, had the jump tower for air born training, and I was unlucky enough to have been posted there twice. | |
| | | Shelldrake FM
Number of posts : 3048 Localisation : Camberley Cap Badge : Royal Artillery Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh Registration date : 2010-10-26
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 19/5/2013, 13:30 | |
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| | | brum FM
Number of posts : 2808 Age : 83 Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire Cap Badge : RA/QOH Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich Registration date : 2010-03-02
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 19/5/2013, 14:25 | |
| - ritter wrote:
- BAOR(CIB)
Attention: Gunners et al The picture below was featured in the Waterloo Region Record, Kitchener, ON in the Saturday edition of the Victoria Day holiday weekend 18-20 May 2013. It was taken at the Royal Canadian Artillery Museum at CFB Shilo, a two-hour drive from Winnipeg in southwestern, Manitoba. The picture provides a rare frontal view of an artillery SP gun called the "Priest" because of its unique pulpit like structure shown on the left side. The pulpit was manned by a gunner with a mounted machine gun. The artillery piece is a 105mm howitzer.
The picture is of special interest as the 19th Fd Artillery Regiment RCA was issued this SP during the campaign from DDay through France, Belgium, Holland, and Germany. The 99th Fd Battery of Wingham, North Huron Township, ON was activated from 21 Fd Artillery Regt RCA as part of the 19th Fd in WW2. Ubique Gnr Ritter Nice picture, Ritter. Apparently the Brits asked the Yanks to produce a 25pdr-mounted version of the Priest but they turned the order down because they wouldn't produce an SP that didn't have an American gun. The Brits asked Canada to help and-behold, the Sexton was born ! The first WW2 Brit SP was the Bishop but its turret restricted the gun's elevation. | |
| | | ritter Maj
Number of posts : 265 Age : 95 Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M) Registration date : 2011-07-09
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 19/5/2013, 20:09 | |
| BAOR(27CIB) Hardration, Shelldrake & Brum, It was my feeling that the picture of the SP gun, dubbed the "Priest", would generate some responses from the RA & RCA gunners in the BAOR forum. Thanks to Hardration for fleshing out further details about the RCA Museum at CFB Shilo. I have never been to Shilo, MAN. Thanks also to Shelldrake for providing the hyperlink to the very fine photograph of himself and his young grandson in front of a very famous gun taken in the museum at Woolwich, UK. Brum, as expected, provided some very interesting details about the evolution of the development of the SP guns in the RA and RCA. The Priest, the Sexton, and the Bishop SP guns in WW2 all had significant ecclesiastic names. One of the main duties for a Sexton in the Anglican church is to arrange for the burial of deceased parishioners in the church graveyards. The job of the Sexton SP's was to bury the enemy. Bishops are very high officials in the church and are ordained by God. Both sides in both of the World Wars made it abundantly clear that God was on their side. German belt buckles all had the inscriptions,"Gott mit uns". And on our side, the motto of the RA and RCA is very clear about the righteous and Godly nature of their mission with an ecclesiastic ring: Ubique Quo Fas et Gloria Ducunt "Everywhere, Wither Right and Glory Lead" The picture above is the flag of the Royal Canadian Artillery not the colors. In the RA and RCA the colors are the guns. Amen Gun Ritter | |
| | | brum FM
Number of posts : 2808 Age : 83 Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire Cap Badge : RA/QOH Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich Registration date : 2010-03-02
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 20/5/2013, 09:50 | |
| Still keeping to church - related names, let's not forget "Abbot".
I've been inspired to dig into Ian V Hogg's "The Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Artillery" and have found a 17pdr - mounted SP called "Archer". It's spoken well of but was redundant by the early 50s.
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| | | cartav Maj Gen
Number of posts : 784 Age : 94 Localisation : s. yorks Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR) Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands. Registration date : 2011-04-26
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 20/5/2013, 11:32 | |
| - brum wrote:
Still keeping to church - related names, let's not forget "Abbot".
I've been inspired to dig into Ian V Hogg's "The Illustrated Encyclopaedia of Artillery" and have found a 17pdr - mounted SP called "Archer". It's spoken well of but was redundant by the early 50s. Ah ! The old Archer ........ 17 pdr on a Valentine chassis and still around in BAOR in my time. Mounted to fire backwards, over the rear end, but not when it was trundling along at 15 mph. max as the recoil would have separated driver's head from body. And still on the church theme & before Archer, there was "Deacon", a typical Brit compromise which saw a 6 pdr AT mounted on a cut down Matador chassis. Used in WW2 up to the end of the war in North Africa in 1943. And that WAS before my time ! | |
| | | Hardrations Let Gen
Number of posts : 1074 Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook) Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places Registration date : 2007-12-16
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 21/5/2013, 04:27 | |
| In 1970 while posted in CFB Petawawa we had to practise for a parade in the 4 RCHA drill hall. They had a 25 pdr that was being refurbished over in one corner. Now remember we were Sigs not RCA people. Being winter time many thought this item of gunnery made a fine coat rack for parka's and great coats. MISTAKE! (My previous time attached to Artillery saved me a sinful error) This 4 RCHA Sgt limped out on to the drill floor (I knew him from 2 SSM Bty and knew why he limped) And very forcefully and with great accuracy explained to the lads about the RCA colours and to remove their items of winter apparel before their world came to an end. Incidentaly this Sgt. had been crushed between an Honest John Handling Unit and 5 ton long wheel base, lucky to be alive. | |
| | | brum FM
Number of posts : 2808 Age : 83 Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire Cap Badge : RA/QOH Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich Registration date : 2010-03-02
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 21/5/2013, 18:07 | |
| - Shelldrake wrote:
- https://2img.net/h/i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa346/Shelldrake851/DSCF1124.jpg
Nice photograph Bob. This is one of myself and youngest Grandson in front of the Gun that won WW2, the BL 5.5in Medium Gun, taken at the |Royal Artillery Museum, Woolwich. We loved that gun and we were very good at using it. The spirit went out of the regiment when we lost the 5.5s and got that bloody missile. | |
| | | Shelldrake FM
Number of posts : 3048 Localisation : Camberley Cap Badge : Royal Artillery Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh Registration date : 2010-10-26
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 22/5/2013, 06:40 | |
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| | | brum FM
Number of posts : 2808 Age : 83 Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire Cap Badge : RA/QOH Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich Registration date : 2010-03-02
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 22/5/2013, 12:24 | |
| Cheers pal ! The background looks a bit like Reinsehlen don't yer think ? | |
| | | Shelldrake FM
Number of posts : 3048 Localisation : Camberley Cap Badge : Royal Artillery Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh Registration date : 2010-10-26
| | | | Hardrations Let Gen
Number of posts : 1074 Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook) Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places Registration date : 2007-12-16
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 25/5/2013, 00:37 | |
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| | | Shelldrake FM
Number of posts : 3048 Localisation : Camberley Cap Badge : Royal Artillery Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh Registration date : 2010-10-26
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 25/5/2013, 11:40 | |
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| | | brum FM
Number of posts : 2808 Age : 83 Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire Cap Badge : RA/QOH Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich Registration date : 2010-03-02
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 25/5/2013, 12:03 | |
| Do my tired old minces deceive me or is that a 51 (Kabul 1842) Bty cipher I see on the door of that launcher ?
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| | | Hardrations Let Gen
Number of posts : 1074 Localisation : Winnipeg Manitoba Canada Cap Badge : RC Sigs (RTG Op) / CF Logistics (Cook) Places Served : Germany, Egypt, Cyprus, CFS Alert and some other strange places Registration date : 2007-12-16
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 25/5/2013, 12:54 | |
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| | | Shelldrake FM
Number of posts : 3048 Localisation : Camberley Cap Badge : Royal Artillery Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh Registration date : 2010-10-26
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 25/5/2013, 13:11 | |
| That's much better, I see that one has it's Electric Blanket on, they were looked after better than the guys who served them! | |
| | | brum FM
Number of posts : 2808 Age : 83 Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire Cap Badge : RA/QOH Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich Registration date : 2010-03-02
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 25/5/2013, 13:35 | |
| I bet it was 76 Bty that nicked the fins ! | |
| | | Shelldrake FM
Number of posts : 3048 Localisation : Camberley Cap Badge : Royal Artillery Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh Registration date : 2010-10-26
| | | | ritter Maj
Number of posts : 265 Age : 95 Localisation : North Huron Township, ON,Canada Cap Badge : Royal Canadian Artillery Places Served : CFB Valcartier, CFB Borden, AFVR Meaford, Ipperwash, CAN; Hannover, Putlos; 21 Fd Regt RCA(M) Registration date : 2011-07-09
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 26/5/2013, 21:49 | |
| BAOR(27CIB) Attention Gunners et al, This is a final response, perhaps, to the thread about the SP artillery guns used in WW2 by the RA and RCA. It is also an acknowledgement for the contributions to this thread by Brum, Cartav, Hardrations and Shelldrake. Most of the SPs shown (the colors in the artillery) repose in museums in the UK and Canada. The FV433 Abbot The model shown above had a fully rotating turret housing a 105mm gun and was built by Vickers. This picture was taken at the Firepower Museum in London, UK The Archer SP 17pdr Valentine Mk1 The Archer was issued first to the RA rather than the Royal Armoured Corps in WW2 but it was later used by the Royal Armoured Corps in the BAOR during the early 1950's. There is an Archer on display at the Bovington Tank Museum in the UK. The Bishop The Bishop was the result of a hurried decision to create a SP gun on a Valentine chassis with a 25pdr gun. It was built by the Birmingham Carriage and Waggon Company in 1941 and was used in the North Africa campaign. It was a short lived failure. The Deacon The Deacon was an armoured SP with a 6pdr anti tank gun built on the chassis of an AEC Matador truck and was built in 1942 for the North Africa campaign. Its name fitted in with the style of naming SP artillery with ecclesiastical titles. The Sexton The Sexton was a tracked SP with a fully rotating 25pdr gun based on an American tank chassis. It was built in Canada for the RA and RCA and was a replacement for the Priest. Sources for the information and pictures: Wikipedia Google, yahoo, Yahoo de, suchmaschinen Picture processing courtesy Photobucket Gnr Ritter | |
| | | brum FM
Number of posts : 2808 Age : 83 Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire Cap Badge : RA/QOH Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich Registration date : 2010-03-02
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 27/5/2013, 11:05 | |
| Thanks for that Ritter. A small point on Sexton. According to Ian V Hogg's book, a Canadian-built tank, based on the Sherman and called "Ram", was altered to take the 25 pdr.
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| | | cartav Maj Gen
Number of posts : 784 Age : 94 Localisation : s. yorks Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR) Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands. Registration date : 2011-04-26
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 28/5/2013, 10:47 | |
| - brum wrote:
Thanks for that Ritter. A small point on Sexton. According to Ian V Hogg's book, a Canadian-built tank, based on the Sherman and called "Ram", was altered to take the 25 pdr. Nicely done Ritter ! Swinging the lamp. pulling up a sandbag, I can remember the SEXTON with 5 RHA (or was it 4 RHA?) at Dodesheide Bks in Osnabruck in the mid- '50s. One point though, I don't think the 25pdr. was on a fully rotating mounting and the pic shows it had limited traverse. And Brum........ Confirmed SEXTON was on RAM running gear. which was also used to carry the KANGAROO APC. I wouldn't query anything by Master Gunner Hogg, who is one pace behind God as far as I' m concerned, but my refs tell that RAM was developed from M3 Grant/ Lee underpinnings and these became surplus when RAM was discontinued after M4 Sherman became available. Suppose bottom bits of M3 & M4 could be the same anyway, looking at the pics. | |
| | | brum FM
Number of posts : 2808 Age : 83 Localisation : Sandbach Cheshire Cap Badge : RA/QOH Places Served : JLRRA (Hereford) Nienburg Paderborn Colchester Munster Maresfield (Cyprus) Hohne Hemer Op Banner x4 Woolwich Registration date : 2010-03-02
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 28/5/2013, 10:54 | |
| I bow to your greater knowledge, cartav. Hogg's book doesn't go into the subject that deeply.
Given the gun's restricted traverse, I imagine the driver would have to be close by in case they were given a big switch !
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| | | cartav Maj Gen
Number of posts : 784 Age : 94 Localisation : s. yorks Cap Badge : RA (ns) RA, R.Sigs, RE ( TAVR) Places Served : Oswestry, Tonfanau, Woolwich, Osnabruck, MT School Bordon, Bulford, Manorbier, Hameln, R.Sigs Blandford, RSME Chattenden, Western Highlands. Registration date : 2011-04-26
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 28/5/2013, 11:28 | |
| - brum wrote:
I bow to your greater knowledge, cartav. Hogg's book doesn't go into the subject that deeply.
Given the gun's restricted traverse, I imagine the driver would have to be close by in case they were given a big switch ! Apologies for being picky ! I guess that limited traverse problem occurs with ARCHER too and the driver wouldn't have wanted to be seated when the thing recoiled.......... and maybe you or Sheldrake could tell how you went on with 5.5s. Looks like a bit of a lump to swing around when there's no turntable like the 25pdr. Didn't have any bother with the Bristol Bofors, it was all done by one layer pushing buttons. | |
| | | Shelldrake FM
Number of posts : 3048 Localisation : Camberley Cap Badge : Royal Artillery Places Served : Troon, Lippstadt, Devizes, NI, Paderborn, Dortmund, Colchester, Belize, Canada, Cyprus, Gutersloh Registration date : 2010-10-26
| Subject: Re: Artillery Museum CFB Shilo, Manitoba 28/5/2013, 15:26 | |
| We put a big wooden pole (The name escapes me) in either side of the trail, lifted it up and manoeuvred it where required - we were young and fit in those days! | |
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