Queens Royal Irish Hussars, Wolfenbüttel 1964-68

It's nice that all the facts around these pictures are coming nicely together.
Now, "the bloke up a lamppost" picture, how come those troops in front of him aren't carrying small arms ?

JPW wrote:

Hussar 100

Thank you for your prompt, fascinating and authorative response to my pm.

There can be no arguments over the location and participants.

PS Would never have recognised the location as the Loddenheide complex, massive changes from my time a decade earlier.

You're very welcome mate.  It gives me a warm feeling (so much so that I have to check me underwear) that my pictures are so important all these years later.  

I must try and dig some more out, in between my growing contributions to arrse.co.uk.

Soprano, thanks for acknowledging my post on SMG drill. Your explanation went further and I'm grateful to you for it.

Hussar100 wrote:

JPW wrote:

Hussar 100

Thank you for your prompt, fascinating and authorative response to my pm.

There can be no arguments over the location and participants.

PS Would never have recognised the location as the Loddenheide complex, massive changes from my time a decade earlier.

You're very welcome mate.  It gives me a warm feeling (so much so that I have to check me underwear) that my pictures are so important all these years later.  

I must try and dig some more out, in between my growing contributions to arrse.co.uk.

Soprano, thanks for acknowledging my post on SMG drill.  Your explanation went further and I'm grateful to you for it.  

No worries twas' the least I could do! What's your c/s over on ARRSE then? We might have locked horns!!!  

soprano54 wrote:

Hussar100 wrote:

JPW wrote:

Hussar 100

Thank you for your prompt, fascinating and authorative response to my pm.

There can be no arguments over the location and participants.

PS Would never have recognised the location as the Loddenheide complex, massive changes from my time a decade earlier.

You're very welcome mate.  It gives me a warm feeling (so much so that I have to check me underwear) that my pictures are so important all these years later.  

I must try and dig some more out, in between my growing contributions to arrse.co.uk.

Soprano, thanks for acknowledging my post on SMG drill.  Your explanation went further and I'm grateful to you for it.  

No worries twas' the least I could do! What's your c/s over on ARRSE then? We might have locked horns!!!  

I'm Hussar1000.  We've not locked horns although I do remember chatting with you under a different identity some years ago when the site wasn't long started.  You're an ex-tankie warrant officer if my memory serves me right?

Isn't it funny though how many ex-soldiers don't know that there were drill movements for the SMG? Personally I transferred in from an infantry unit to the RAC and I'd never seen or heard of it at that time. It soon became second nature but I never forgot how to drill with an SLR either and when called upon to do it without rehearsal some years later in NI I was able to do it perfectly.

Instinct!

[quote="Hussar100


"Isn't it funny though how many ex-soldiers don't know that there were drill movements for the SMG?"  

I touched briefly on SMG drill once, on a cadre course but never needed it again.
I do however, have some photos of QOH on (I think) a Freedom of Birmingham parade and some of the movements can be seen on them.

"but I never forgot how to drill with an SLR either and when called upon to do it without rehearsal some years later I was able to do it perfectly."

 [/quote]

As was I with the old .303, mit No9 bayonet.

Bit like riding a bike, I suppose, you soon get back to into it.

Hi hussar100,
I was interested to read on the internet that your Regiment amalgamated with the Queens Own Hussars in 1993. How did that joining up go for both Regiments. My interest goes back to 1958 when I as a Royal Signal Sgt was attached to the then 7th Queens Own Hussars in Tidworth. They amalgamated with the 3rd Kings Own Hussars , who were in Germany at the time to form The Queens Own Hussars. I and my little Troop of nine Signallers were actually on that parade where the two royal Colonels were in attendance. (HM Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret), and I still have the beautifully printed coloured programme together with the annual journals for 1956/7. The amalgamation of the two Regiments went fairly well where they tried to have alternative Troop Commanders, Squadron Commanders, 2IC and CO from the two former Regiments. It worked for a bit but I think the QOH finally took the lead etc.
Jimsigs

jimsigs1 wrote:

Hi hussar100,
I was interested to read on the internet that your Regiment amalgamated with the Queens Own Hussars in 1993. How did that joining up go for both Regiments. My interest goes back to 1958 when I as a Royal Signal Sgt was attached to the then 7th Queens Own Hussars in Tidworth. They amalgamated with the 3rd Kings Own Hussars , who were in Germany at the time to form The Queens Own Hussars. I and my little Troop of nine Signallers were actually on that parade where the two royal Colonels were in attendance. (HM Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother and Princess Margaret), and I still have the beautifully printed coloured programme together with the annual journals for 1956/7. The amalgamation of the two Regiments went fairly well where they tried to have alternative Troop Commanders, Squadron Commanders, 2IC and CO from the two former Regiments. It worked for a bit but I think the QOH finally took the lead etc.
Jimsigs

Hi Jim,

Yes the amalgamation went well.  I was over for an OCA weekend and generally saw a happy bunch.  From a uniform perspective the QRIH seem to have come out on top but from a recruitment angle they seem to be having more success in Birmingham than in Ireland and the general consensus is that the regimental title no longer contains the word "Irish" which is probably why our own lobby insisted upon the secondary title in brackets.  It does mean however that any recruits from Ireland don't immediately know this is an Irish regiment - despite the very prominent harp in the cap badge.

There were still a few friends of mine serving but, as you'd appreciate, they were all commissioned.  Lots of Irishmen, north and south in senior positions but I didn't speak to any troopers from Ireland.  

The QOH were very Birmingham oriented whereas the QRIH were more like the old 8th with a few Englishmen in the regt.  At the moment I'd say the QOH side of things is getting the upper hand in the regt.  No harm in that but as an Irishman and former QRIH soldier I'd prefer to see the Irish links and recruitment stay as strong as they were on amalgamation.

I'm glad that all went well with your amalgamation. On the uniform side of things, does any badge or emblem feature in the uniform of the QRIH from the Queens Own Hussars. I was thinking mainly of the 'Polish Lady' awarded to the old 7th during WWII. Although the QOH ordered me to replace my blue lanyard with their white one, they would not extend that to us or the REME boys in wearing their 'Polish Lady'.
A couple of uniform peculiarities I remember was that an SQMS was addressed as 'Sergeant-Major' (our fella from the 7th was Trunk Howard who went on to become the QOH RSM and later commissioned as QM, retiring as a Major. Sadly alas, now deceased. The other item of clothing I noticed was that whilst an SSM (WO2) wore a stiff peak cap, the 3rd Kings Own Hussar equivalent wore an Officers peak cap. This was carried over into QOH.

jimsigs1 wrote:

I'm glad that all went well with your amalgamation. On the uniform side of things, does any badge or emblem feature in the uniform of the QRIH from the Queens Own Hussars. I was thinking mainly of the 'Polish Lady' awarded to the old 7th during WWII. Although the QOH ordered me to replace my blue lanyard with their white one, they would not extend that to us or the REME boys in wearing their 'Polish Lady'.
A couple of uniform peculiarities I remember was that an SQMS was addressed as 'Sergeant-Major' (our fella from the 7th was Trunk Howard who went on to become the QOH RSM and later commissioned as QM, retiring as a Major. Sadly alas, now deceased. The other item of clothing I noticed was that whilst an SSM (WO2) wore a stiff peak cap, the 3rd Kings Own Hussar equivalent wore an Officers peak cap. This was carried over into QOH.

I don't mean to steal any of Hussar100's thunder but yes they do still wear the 'Maid of Warsaw':-

http://historum.com/european-history/33911-queen-s-royal-hussars.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen's_Royal_Hussars

Do the officers still wear the American style "tea caddy" side hat?

JPW wrote:

Do the officers still wear the American style "tea caddy" side hat?

I think it's called a 'Tent Hat' and yes they do, take a look at the links in my last post!

Thanks Soprano54

Jimsigs

jimsigs1 wrote:

I'm glad that all went well with your amalgamation. On the uniform side of things, does any badge or emblem feature in the uniform of the QRIH from the Queens Own Hussars. I was thinking mainly of the 'Polish Lady' awarded to the old 7th during WWII. Although the QOH ordered me to replace my blue lanyard with their white one, they would not extend that to us or the REME boys in wearing their 'Polish Lady'.
A couple of uniform peculiarities I remember was that an SQMS was addressed as 'Sergeant-Major' (our fella from the 7th was Trunk Howard who went on to become the QOH RSM and later commissioned as QM, retiring as a Major. Sadly alas, now deceased. The other item of clothing I noticed was that whilst an SSM (WO2) wore a stiff peak cap, the 3rd Kings Own Hussar equivalent wore an Officers peak cap. This was carried over into QOH.

I've still got a Maid of Warsaw badge upstairs, it's in the same box as my Cypher badge that Cpls and above had to wear above their stripes.
Is the Fern Leaf still on the vehicles ?
Another regimental peculiarity, you didn't address the CO as "Sir", you called him "Colonel". Apparently the same rule applied to the Colonel of the Regiment, who, at the time was the Queen Mother.
I didn't know Trunky had died Jim. He was a nice bloke.

Brum,

I remember having to call the CO 'Colonel'. This particular CO was Colonel Timothy Llewellan-Palmer. A real gentleman who used to smoke if I remember Balkan Sobranie and hold the cigarette a la Sir Noel Coward by holding the  cigarette in a vertical position. He used to hold his Colonel's Quarterly Inspections.
I also remember a bronze statuette at the side of the square which we all used to salute. Was it a statue of RSM Paddy Cleer, the DCM winner.

I don't recall who the statuette was dedicated to, Jim. Nobody thought to tell us newer blokes. There was a brass gong that had to be saluted as well.
It wasn't until the regiment reformed in Caen Bks, Hohne that these ceremonies appeared. There used to be a trumpet call at around 4 o'clock and everyone was supposed to stand still while it was being played. We found out about THAT one the hard way too !

Soprano

Thank you, I read through the Wikipedia brief but missed the sentence concerning the "tent hats".

JPW wrote:

Do the officers still wear the American style "tea caddy" side hat?

No.  Officers wear the old 8th Hussar "Tent Hat".  Most visible uniform distinctions are QRIH to be honest with NCOs and officers wearing bottle green wooly pullies, a good sized Maid of Erin in the badge, blackthorn sticks for WO's and plenty of tent hats on the go.  OR's now wear a leather crossbelt in no 2's which is QOH and the collar of ceremonials has been changed to a red one.  Also the sleeve rank badge is now the Horse of Hanover instead of a harp.

The colonel is stilled called Colonel. As is the Col of the Regt.

An SQMS is still called Sarn't Major.

I didn't notice a Fern Leaf on the vehicles but they still have Irish names.

I didn't note any bronze statuette at the side of the square but what was there were the two brass Roll of Honour memorials which used to be in from to the guardroom. They didn't get saluted in my time and I didn't see anyone salute them this time round.

The two Maxim machine guns are still outside the guardroom. As are two huge projectiles, something in the region of 16" which I know nothing about.

Sadly there are no more trumpet calls. The regiment no longer has a band and the new pipes and drums don't play calls. A great loss in my opinion. I so loved trumpet calls, especially Stables at 11am.

There always seemed to be a QRIH officer seconded to QOH in my time, it's the distinctive hat that he wore around the regiment that I remember. Somebody once told me that the design of the hat had something to do with an association between QRIH and the Danish royal family but I can find nothing of this on wickipedia, so I'll consign that one to the "Urban Miff" file.
The statuette and gong that I remember were in the entrance to the RHQ building.
I notice that wicki mentions the silver drums of the QOH and the silver collar presented by the wife of Lord Southampton. What was omitted was the fact that silver chains were attached from each drum to the collar, (as far as we knew, to prevent them being nicked).
Against my will I was put on duty in Crowfoot ops when battery of our regt went with the QRIH Battlegroup to BATUS, in the late 70s. While there I saw an incident that resulted from the way young subalterns were treated by,(certainly) QOH and QRIH. The young QOH officers were spoken to like they were raw recruits by all ranks and were often humiliated in front of the men in their charge.
One night in Canada I was taking over from a QRIH S/Sgt as watchkeeper when a young officer came in and asked the route to a location. After browbeating him for a while the NCO sent the officer on his way with the instruction to follow the Coyote trail. I think that was the name of the route, one of several, circular ones which many of us will remember, on the area.
A long time later I heard a callsign being called repeatedly and eventually it dawned on me that they were calling the young officer. I told the caller what I thought and was asked why the poor lad had been sent on such a stupid route, I told him, nothing more was said on the subject.
This must've been a cavalry tradition, to treat young offrs in that way but it made me feel uncomfortable.

Never had any problems with the rank & file treating young officers in such a way during my service. In point of fact, by giving them utter respect in accordance with the traditions of the Army etc, you would reap the benefit in later years as that young officer could and in my case did become my future CO. In fact one young officer straight out of Sandhurst became a Brigadier in later years, and in fact was a one time Commandant of the Army Apprentice College Harrogate. His name Bill backhouse. Terrific officer.
Jimsigs

The tent hat has nothing to do with the Danes, that much I know for sure as it came up for discussion some months ago and we had to refer to HHQ. We can't determine the official origin but the info given at the time was:

There is an article in the QRIH Journal, 1972, written by Air Vice Marshall Sir John Baldwin (past Colonel of the 8th KRIH).

It was introduced into the 8th in 1909 by Lt Col HF Deare.(then CO) along with the green suit.

The 8th were in India.

It was called the ‘balaclava headdress at first, It was worn with Mess Dress instead of the red peaked hat.

It was never Danish, they say that because the Danes if I remember wear a similar hat with tassels on it, I saw them when we did that ex in Denmark (Holstboro)!!


I don't remember cornets being treated as badly as you recall. Certainly many of them were held in contempt by OR's, NCO's and officers of field rank and I can recall them being ridiculed. Can't remember any getting a dressing down though. I do recall one being caught wearing a moustache and with his tent hat on the back of his head in Warminster when the adjutant came into camp. Obviously with the main body being in Tidworth we didn't see him very often and his visit was a surprise. We were bore sighting just in front of the CIM and our cornet was stood on top of the turret. In frustration at a problem he had brushed his tent hat onto the back of his head and rubbed his forehead, just at the most inopportune moment as the black Cortina drove into Harman Lines. The adjutant called out to him: "Mr ****, three months extras and get that moustache off."

What I could never understand was the fact that he'd had the moustache for weeks and none of his brother officers thought to tell him that facial hair was forbidden for officers of the QRIH. He was a popular man too.

Hussar100,
Very interesting regarding the none wearing of a moustache by officers of the QRIH. Does this rule still apply today I wonder ?

jimsigs1 wrote:

Hussar100,
Very interesting regarding the none wearing of a moustache by officers of the QRIH. Does this rule still apply today I wonder ?

Jim as far as I know it's still the rule. It's not just in the QRIH/QRH either. AFAIK no cavalry officers are permitted facial hair. I don't know when this rule came in but I do know that in Victorian times it was compulsory for all soldiers to have a moustache. Somewhere along the line the custom was reversed.

Now I come to think of it Hussar100, I cannot remember any of the officers in the 7th having moustaches when I was serving with them. I'm going to sneak a look at my archive photos to see whether there were any offenders. If so then 1 month's Orderly Officer Duties for the culprit.
Jimsigs

I have been enjoying following this thread. I served with the 8 KRIH in Luneberg as a very young Cfn in the LAD and was posted upon amalgamation. A few years later I was posted to the QOH LAD as a WO2 and took on the post of I/C A Sqn Fitters Tp - not a normal WO2 post, the Sqn Ldr was quite taken with this but the SSM was not too happy with having another WO in the Sqn, after the initial reaction we got on extremely well. I left the Regt after A Sqn Op Banner tour on promotion to ASM and posting to a Tk Tptr Sqn Wksp which meant I still saw the Regt from time to time. The last contact I had with them was in 1992 when I was in Hannover and I was invited to visit by the QM and few other ex rankers from my time.

BobG wrote:

I left the Regt after A Sqn Op Banner tour on promotion to ASM

Bob,

What is an ASM?

Cheers,
Dan.