Canadian Inheritance

Does anyone know if we inherited any of the barracks here from the Canadians. Any help would be appreciated.

korbecke was old canadian bks + prison where they used to hang AWOL etc i did find that on net once.
i was stationed there 88/89 spooky in old prision.

Hello there. I was stationed in Salamanca Barracks, Soest from 89 to 93 and I was always told that it was indeed an old Canadian Barracks, although I do not know the year that the British took it over.[/img]

Salamanca was one of the old Canadian forts, yes...I believe Fort Chambly in its previous incarnation (if not, then Fort Henry). It would have been passed to the British in 1971-72.

My father was one of 3 Cdn Army personnel who remained in what was the old Brigade Area to complete the closing out of the Bgd and to transfer properties etc to British (primarily), Belgian and, I believe, German control. He was based, for reasons I can't recall, out of Wetter-Ruhr. We lived in Iserlohn by then but I had lived in Soest PMQs in 70-71 (10-A Canadischer Weg, right behind the heating plant and kitty corner from what became the NAAFI),

As an aside, I returned to Soest to work in 1973-74 (I never wanted to leave to begin with!) and met up with an Irish Ranger family I'd known during our stint in Hemer-Iserlohn and spent considerable time with them and their daughter, Lillian.

Lillian dated a few fellows from Salamanca and the other barracks the British name of which slips my mind now...nice fellows, by and large!

With regard to the bks at Korbecke near the Mohne See...yes, there was a prison there (well, more a jail actually) but we most assuredly did NOT hang AWOL soldiers!! Maybe during WWII but I don't believe those bks belonged to Cdns at that time (German, most likely). Hanging our soldiers...good grief! We're Canadians, we don't engage in such things ! LOL

This was my first posting ex JLRRA. I arrived in Sep 1974 joining 16th Light Air Defence Regiment Royal Artillery. A wonderful posting lasting 3 years. It was indeed always referred to as the "Old Canadian Barracks". ahhh memories past

Alan S wrote:

This was my first posting ex JLRRA. I arrived in Sep 1974 joining 16th Light Air Defence Regiment Royal Artillery. A wonderful posting lasting 3 years. It was indeed always referred to as the "Old Canadian Barracks". ahhh memories past

Hmmm...Alan, if you were stationed there arriving Sept '74, then we overlapped as I was working in Soest at that time. I believe I left to return to Canada in the winter of 74...my memory is a bit fuzzy as to arrival/depature dates.

I am wondering, then, which pubs/discos you might have gone to? A few of the 'squaddies' used to go to a dive called the Palette which I believe was on Ulricher Strasse in the old town. Several of the Belgiques also went there and I recall the British soldiers didn't particularly like the Belgiques and often tried to start fights...sometimes a fight happened and sometimes not. It wasn't a particularly large place and not really a disco as such...more a pub with an upstairs about 5 or 6 steps up from the main section with booths along the side and a small dance floor with a DJ desk at the end. The DJ's name, if I recall, was Francis.

There was also the City Saloon, tucked in behind the Cathedral, about a block north actually. Nice place, but expensive. It was located down in the basement, I believe.

Then there was the disco up by the Bahnhof in a old building now demolished. It played mostly R&B, lots of James Brown and Motown.

Stephen Lock
calgaryfella1953@hotmail.com

My Father was a Lancashire Fusilier Stephen and we lived in Iserlohn from '53 to '56. I don't recall exactly where we lived as I was only 4, but I do remember it being near a large cemetery

jim wrote:

My Father was a Lancashire Fusilier Stephen and we lived in Iserlohn from '53 to '56. I don't recall exactly where we lived as I was only 4, but I do remember it being near a large cemetery

That's a bit before my time (having been born in '53), although I believe Canadians did start showing up in the area around about that time.

Iserlohn is a fairly good-sized city so I really am not sure where the cemetery might be. I'm sure there is more than one!

When my parents and I lived in Iserlohn in 72/73 when Dad was attached to the British and in the last part of closing out the old Canadian Brigade Area, we lived in a neighbourhood called "Am Tyrol." Quite posh, actually, on a hill to the north of downtown Iserlohn, just a bit above the Goethe Institute and a little bit down from the old Brigadier's Mansion (Canadian Brigadier, I believe...it's all a bit foggy now, I'm afraid). While it had only been empty for maybe a couple of years at that point, it was in a dreadful state of repair, derelict and such. Quite a shame as it had been a spectacular home at one time...Princess Margaret, I believe, stayed there once or twice during a visit to troops in the area.

I was stationed in Salamanca Bks in the early 80s (5 Armd Wksp. REME)

The story goes that at the time the British took over the premisis from the Canadians part of the deal was including an ice rink which was situated adjacent to the camp and of course was very much part of Canadian life (after we taught them the game of curilng).

I believe that there had been a request for some fom of payment for this facility as it had been funded by the Canadiains and when the British refused to pay the complete internals were trashed so that it could no longer be used. I remember the building well.

Craggy R wrote:

I was stationed in Salamanca Bks in the early 80s (5 Armd Wksp. REME)

The story goes that at the time the British took over the premisis from the Canadians part of the deal was including an ice rink which was situated adjacent to the camp and of course was very much part of Canadian life (after we taught them the game of curilng).

I believe that there had been a request for some fom of payment for this facility as it had been funded by the Canadiains and when the British refused to pay the complete internals were trashed so that it could no longer be used. I remember the building well.

I know there was an arena there as there was a very active hockey team in Soest (The Huskies). That it was trashed in some sort of "retribution" to BAOR's refusal to pay for it (perhaps expecting to get it for free?), I can't say. It is possible various items and infrastructure were removed and shipped to Lahr and/or Baden Soelingen, but as I was not a hockey player and did not use the arena at all, I can't say. I do know an ongoing source of frustration for my father,who closed out the old Brigade Area and transferred much to the British, was BAOR's...how should I put this?....frugality when it came to acquiring various assets etc from the Canadians.

The British were offered the Canadians' married quarter furniture,for instance. Fairly decent pieces too and quite well made and esthetically not terrible. Rather than purchasing it, and keep in mind every single quarter had a full compliment of living, dining, bedroom, and kitchen furniture, dishes, pots and pans, carpets, drapes, wardrobes, etc., the Brits decided to refuse the offer and instead furnish the quarters with second-rate, flimsy, particleboard items that may have survived a year or two. Some of it was shipped off down to Lahr, some of it was "liberated" by families returning to Canada (I still have a quite nice, albeit simple, side table and a small stool. My mother brought back a complete dinner set of PMQ dishes), some of it was left behind and some British families were lucky enough to "inherit" it. The rest, unfortunately, ended up in a landfill somewhere....

I know the arena down in the former Fort Prince of Wales in Deilinghofen survived intact for many years after and is only now (2008) being demolished after 30-odd years by the town of Deilinghofen.

Whether the arena ever went to the British, I don't recall. I do know it was used by the local German kids who had formed a hockey team under the Canadians back-in-the-day. This eventually morphed into the Iserlohn Roosters and is still active.

As for teaching us Canucks curling...sooooo, it was you fellows, was it? LOL Or at least the Scots, anyway. For some uknown reason,the British pysche was never able to grasp the subtleties of hockey, however....

Stephen

Checkout the performance of the REME Stallions in the RCEME championships over the past few years - not bad for Brits!!

BobG wrote:

Stephen

Checkout the performance of the REME Stallions in the RCEME championships over the past few years - not bad for Brits!!

Ehehehe...I stand corrected. Guess you boys caught on after 30-odd years, huh?

I lived in Soest PMQ's 6 C St Lorenz Weg from 57-59 as a dependant while my dad worked at Fort Henry L Troop Royal Canadian Signals and later 4 Sigs Sqn. I remember the prison being in use during that time. There was an escape which was the talk of the time. I believe it was used for sentences up to ninety days.

I also joined the army in 1966 and was fortunate enough to be transferred to Fort Henry with 4 CIBG (later 4 CBMG); Pay Office later known as 4 Finance Platoon (Royal Canadian Army Pay Corps) from 68-70. The prison acreoss the road was closed when the Canadian Brigade was moved in 1970, it was used as document storage and driver's license testing during my time in Ft Henry.
Lots of great memories both tours!

The camp just down the road from Fort Henry was called Fort York and was home to a sucession of Canadian infantry battalons. The Canadian Guards during the 57 - 59 era and the RCR during my tour 68-70.

Lots of great memories both tours!

Hey!! Another Canadian!!! Good show!

I find it interesting, after 30-odd years give or take, how so many of us (Canadians and Brits) remember the exact address of where we lived while in Soest or Hemer or Werl...I lived at 10-A Kanadischer Weg, right behind the heating plant, in Soest (and a couple of minutes walk from the Teen Hut, where I spent considerable time (as I also did in various gasthofs, but that's another story LOL).

Stephen Lock wrote:

The British were offered the Canadians' married quarter furniture,for instance. Fairly decent pieces too and quite well made and esthetically not terrible. Rather than purchasing it, and keep in mind every single quarter had a full compliment of living, dining, bedroom, and kitchen furniture, dishes, pots and pans, carpets, drapes, wardrobes, etc., the Brits decided to refuse the offer and instead furnish the quarters with second-rate, flimsy, particleboard items that may have survived a year or two. Some of it was shipped off down to Lahr, some of it was "liberated" by families returning to Canada (I still have a quite nice, albeit simple, side table and a small stool. My mother brought back a complete dinner set of PMQ dishes), some of it was left behind and some British families were lucky enough to "inherit" it. The rest, unfortunately, ended up in a landfill somewhere....

Although young, free, and foolish (sorry...meant single ) at that time, I do remember something about the Canadian MQ furniture etc.

Apparently it was offered at a ridiculously low price to the authorities of the time, and the offer was "politely" refused. A lot of the married men on the advance party were a little about it, to say the least. I believe that most of the fridges ended up being dumped or "redirected" during, and shortly after, the handover.

You are right, Stephen, in that some items survived and they were put to good use by the "pads", and I do remember meeting someone who stayed with 2 Field R.A. until they left Deilinghofen and they said that some of the kit was still floating about even then.

Paul.

As I have mentioned elsewhere on this site (okay, mentioned a lot!), my father was one of three Canadian military personnel who did not transfer down to the Black Forest Region but, instead, remained in what we referred to as The Old Brigade Area (Iserlohn, Hemer, Deilinghofen, Unna, Werl, Soest, Bad Sassendorf) to complete the close-out and the transfer to the British forces. We lived in Iserlohn at that time, although Soest remained, and remains, my "home town."

As I only had one year left of school, I made a 'deal' with my parents that I would return to Canada, finish school, graduate, and in return they would assist me in getting back to Germany (which I never wanted to leave in the first place). I returned to Soest in 1973 and worked for a year for a German construction company building a resort hotel out on the south shore of the Moehnesee (in Suedefer. The hotel is call The Atrium). I lived not too far from the married quarters and knew a few British families who lived in married quarters so spent a lot of my free time there (or the pubs and discos!).

The one family I spent most of my time with, they essentially adopted me, were lucky enough to have inherited the Canadian furniture which was a point of pride for the mother . The other family I spent time with were stuck with the flimsy crap that replaced the "Canadian Furniture" and with two very active boys (4 and 6, I believe) the furniture didn't hold up well at all.

I am not at all suprised, and in fact rather pleased, to learn some of 'the kit' was still kicking around in Deilinghofen x-number of years later. Certainly a testament to just how well it was made.

As for the Brit authorities "politely" turning down the very fair offer of the furniture, dishes, etc...yes, I remember just how...well...pissed my Dad was at that. LOL He thought they were crazy for turning it down and, in fact, made several offers. He finally just gave up.

The last summer the Canadians were all in Soest, several of us teenage boys got jobs helping to clear the married quarters that were vacated (not all were at this point,but many were) of the furniture, as well as the forts, breaking down the cots, dragging out the wardrobes etc. We filled dozens and dozens of deuce-and-a-halfs (lorries) with the stuff. Damn waste if you ask me....

Stephen,

The "establishment" definitely did not learn from their mistakes.

Although not connected to BAOR, I do know of a similar incident 23 years later.

I was in Hong Kong and was sent to Brisbane on a Company exercise for 6 weeks, as the VM. Well, someone had to do it!! We used the Australian accomodation, vehicles, rations, etc. Everything was offered virtually free, except the ammunition/explosives that would be used. The powers-that-were "politely" refused.

The result? By about the middle of week 4 most of the vehicles had been handed back, the infantry was virtuall reduced to shouting "bang", and I ended up twiddling my thumbs for nearly 10 days. We ended up with 2 5 tonners, a Land Rover, and a Holden pick-up.

No, they definitely didn't learn by their mistakes.

Paul.

So much for the British reputation of frugality and fairness LOL

Frugal would have been to take advantage of the offers. Not doing so is just plain cheap!

I was a member 660 AAC in 1972 based at Salamanca, home of the AA Light Air Defence Regiment RA.
I remember the airfield being adjacent to the German Gliding Club, which had limited use due to our operations there.
The Airfield , consisted of 1 hangar for 6 Scout and 6 Sioux helicopters and was guarded by a Misplaced persons unit at that time and I remember them being Polish and normally drunk.
I need to get my memory banks back in place ! more soon

HarryB wrote:

I was a member 660 AAC in 1972 based at Salamanca, home of the AA Light Air Defence Regiment RA.
I remember the airfield being adjacent to the German Gliding Club, which had limited use due to our operations there.
The Airfield , consisted of 1 hangar for 6 Scout and 6 Sioux helicopters and was guarded by a Misplaced persons unit at that time and I remember them being Polish and normally drunk.
I need to get my memory banks back in place ! more soon

Sorry but I must take issue with you on part of your post, marked in red.

I had dealings with MSO personnel and never found them wanting. Don't forget, they were not "Misplaced"! they had chosen to stay where they were and make the best of it, and many of them had been in place for a long time. They had heard, seen, and possibly experienced, things that we hopefully never will.

By the way, what was the number of the Lt.A.D. Regt that was in place while you were there (marked in blue)?

Paul

I heard that the sports facilities on the camps were offered to the British at a price but they held out hoping it would be abandoned. On the last day/last minute(depending on which story you were told) the Canadians skated out onto the ice rink and just smashed it to bits with baseball bats and hockey sticks. We did have a fridge in our apartment that was the same height as me when I was 14 so I assume that was left over. The rest of the furniture was the dreaded "G-plan" with stretch nylon covers that looked like they had been styled by Timothy Leary.

ah yes,

those dreaded psychedelic covers, now that brings back memories Steve, as I recall the other choice was a very bilious green

Ours were what would now be called "Day-Glo" orange. They could have been used as Hi-Vis clothing.

A neighbour had the equivalent in yellow!!!.

Paul.

To Paul from HarryB - please don't get upset or take exception with my remarks you marked in Red. I am aware of the MSO's past and the ones I am mentioning were in their 20s and had nothing to do with MSO from after WW2. I am fully aware of what they went through as both my parents were inmates of German Labour camps during WW2.

Anyway, I loved Soest, it was one of the best postings I'd ever been on. After Osnabruck, it was like Butlins. Excellent barracks accomodation (thanks Canucks). Excellent pub facilities down in Lohne at the Sonnenuhr and Die Ecke. I even managed a German girlfriend or two during my posting and had loads of German friends through the football with the local villages. Very happy memories !

HarryB wrote:

To Paul from HarryB - please don't get upset or take exception with my remarks you marked in Red. I am aware of the MSO's past and the ones I am mentioning were in their 20s and had nothing to do with MSO from after WW2. I am fully aware of what they went through as both my parents were inmates of German Labour camps during WW2.

Point taken HarryB, maybe it was just me being picky and old fashioned!!

My sincere apologies if my comments caused offence or upset.

Paul.