Canadian memorials

Like teabag, on another thread, I have been photographing war graves and memorials in the southern part of Cheshire.
Among over a thousand pictures there are twenty two Canadians from both WW1 and WW2.
If there is anyone who has an interest in this subject then please get in touch.

brum

brum wrote:

Like teabag, on another thread, I have been photographing war graves and memorials in the southern part of Cheshire.
Among over a thousand pictures there are twenty two Canadians from both WW1 and WW2.
If there is anyone who has an interest in this subject then please get in touch.

brum

Have you ever been to that church in North Wales Brum? Think it is Ruthin and I understand there are a lot of Canadians buried there. Flu epidemic at the end of the first war I believe?

I've been past the place loads Alan but only stopped once, that was in the days before I knew what it was all about. Actually it's the Marble Church at Bodelwyddan, near St Asaph. The Canadians were from Kinmel Park camp, a sad story.
I'm toying with the idea of making a trip there next time I'm up in N.Wales, Out of my area I know but I wouldn't mind a folder with the graves in it, I believe there's over forty of them.

brum

brum wrote:

I've been past the place loads Alan but only stopped once, that was in the days before I knew what it was all about. Actually it's the Marble Church at Bodelwyddan, near St Asaph. The Canadians were from Kinmel Park camp, a sad story.
I'm toying with the idea of making a trip there next time I'm up in N.Wales, Out of my area I know but I wouldn't mind a folder with the graves in it, I believe there's over forty of them.

brum

This is where the Canadian rioted in 1919, due to the incompetence of the Canadian Govt.

"The mutineers were our own men, stuck in the mud of North Wales, waiting impatiently to get back to Canada – four months after the end of the war. The 15,000 Canadian troops that concentrated at Kinmel didn’t know about the strikes that had held up the fuelling of ships and which had caused food shortages. The men were on half rations, there was no coal for the stove in the cold grey huts, and they hadn’t been paid for over a month. Forty-two had to sleep in a hut meant for thirty, so they each took turns sleeping on the floor, with one blanket each.

often pass the marble church but never stopped but will make an effort to next time, this is a qoute from there web site regarding the canadians that died.

" Immediately to the west of the church is Kinmel Park, which was a military camp used by Canadian troops during the First World War. The churchyard contains the graves of numerous victims of the Spanish flu pandemic of 1918-19 in the camp. On 4-5th March 1919 a riot occurred in the camp when the ship allocated to return the troops to Canada was diverted to carry food supplies to Russia, and five Canadian soldiers were killed in the disturbances and subsequently buried in St Margaret's Churchyard; a common story is that they were executed for mutiny, but this has been denied by the Canadian Department of National Defence."

A good place to start, perhaps, would be

http://admieapp.forces.gc.ca/index-eng.asp

This is the official site for Canadian postwar and military family gravesites.

this part of the site deals primarily with the gravesites in Germany and France (Werl, for instance) but there is a link to the main Dept of National Defence site. It may be possible, with a bit of burrowing around and such, to either find something about the Cheshire and Welsh sites or supply information to the site administrators about them.

Hopefully, someone in the bureaucracy either knows about these sites (I never did!) or is interested in knowing about them.

I would hope there was a list or some sort of permanent record of them and that the Canadian government (or it's bureaucracy -- governments come and go but the bureaucracy lives on forever!) is somehow involved in maintaining these sites and not leaving it up to local authorities.

I do know, for instance, the Werl cemetery recently -- as in recent years -- had a ceremony whereby the site was commemorated. It is usual in Germany, due to the shortage of land, to 'rotate' graves every 25 years and there was a concern the graves of Canadian soldiers and their dependents at Werl would be lost as it has been over 25 years since the first grave was established there and over 25 years since the Canadians left the area.

A preliminary perusal of the site reveals location listings for Belgium, Cyprus, Denmark, England, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Northern Ireland and Scotland but none for Wales.

Listings under "England" include:

* Brookwood
* Cheadle-Gatley
* Farnborough
* Gosport
* Hebburn
* Helston
* Langar
* North Luffenham
* Portland, Dorset - Royal Naval
* Radcliffe-On-Trent
* Seaton
* St. Merryn
* Wallasey-Wirral

Well I am in Wallasey. Only found the one Canadian in Rake lane but the site says two? Believe I have covered all the official war graves but if anyone knows who the other is then please let me know.

Can't believe they rotate Werl cemetery. Talk about Liebensraum (sp?).

Teabag wrote:

Well I am in Wallasey. Only found the one Canadian in Rake lane but the site says two? Believe I have covered all the official war graves but if anyone knows who the other is then please let me know.

Can't believe they rotate Werl cemetery. Talk about Liebensraum (sp?).

There was talk of rotating it. But the Werl administration came to an agreement with the Cdn Govt in continuing for another 50 years with 50 more to be added. The Burgomeister insisted on a military honour parade for it by the Canadians which was done. The Canadian section of the grave yard has been redone (2003) new stones and landscaping. I have a former sister-in-law buried there and one comrade from 1 SSM Bty. So was there to check it out in 2003. They've done a wonderful job. Incidentaly most Canadian War Graves have also been redone.

yes, I had heard some sort of accommodation had been reached in regards to the gravesites at Werl...well, perhaps "accommodation" isn't the best choice of terms here LOL....

I am pleased, even though I do not have anyone buried at Werl, that an agreement was reached to extend the lease, as it were, by another 50 years with 50 more added. By then, if the world is still around, it will be well over 100 years and I would think the sites would then qualify as "historic" and be maintained forever. One can hope!

Teabag....it is a common practice in Deutschland to rotate graves. The 25 year limit, I believe, is due to the likelihood any immediate family will have likely joined the occupant of the site and so no one will be traumatized by having no grave to visit.

There is a limited amount of space and so this is why the sites are "cleared out" after several years. Strikes most of us as a tad macabre, I know, and I have no idea what happens to the remains, but I am sure it is all handled with due care, consideration, and respect...it's not like Aunt Martha's bones are going to be tossed on the compost heap down at the end of the garden or anything!

Hardrations -- so pleased to hear the Cdn section has been redone and upgraded and that you think they've done a wonderful job.