Irish Rangers -- and others -- in Hemer

One of the main reasons I originally accessed BAOR-locations was to get more information/make contact with individuals I might have known during my time amongst the British families in Hemer (1971-72) and Soest (73-74).

Interestingly enough, there hasn't been a lot, if any, presence from former Irish Rangers (which was the regiment that was stationed in Hemer when I was living in Iserlohn) or dependents thereof.

I'd enjoy hearing from any Rangers, or more exactly from dependents as they'd more like be contemporaries of mine and maybe we'd share some memories of our time in Hemer.

At the same time the Irish Rangers were in Hemer there was another regiment/unit stationed there as well, but I can't now remember what it was. Most of the families living in the Hemer Married Quarter area along Zeppliner Strasse were Irish Ranger, but of course they were not the only families there.

I now forget, off hand, which of the old barracks the Irish Rangers were based out of...I think it was one of the two barracks in Deilinghofen.

Of course, there were those two camps, as well as the two (or was it three?) barracks located between Hemer and Iserlohn and in Iserlohn itself so clearly there were more personnel than just the Irish Rangers kicking around. I'd enjoy hearing from anyone associated with them as well.

Ciao for now

Stephen

Stephen Lock wrote:

....At the same time the Irish Rangers were in Hemer there was another regiment/unit stationed there as well, but I can't now remember what it was. Most of the families living in the Hemer Married Quarter area along Zeppliner Strasse were Irish Ranger, but of course they were not the only families there.

I now forget, off hand, which of the old barracks the Irish Rangers were based out of...I think it was one of the two barracks in Deilinghofen.
Stephen

There were two Camps/Forts/Barracks in Deilinghofen - Barossa Barracks (Fort McLeod) where the Irish Rangers were and Peninsula Barracks (Fort Prince of Wales) where (in the time span you mention) 2 Field Regiment were stationed.

So in the Deilinghofen area, 2 units were stationed there.

Hark, do I here mutterings of dissention in the ranks?

Oh!! all right then . Within Peninsula Barracks, there was the U.S. Missile detachment (69th US Missile Regiment I think), so it could be said that there were three units in Deilinghofen.

Over to the Irish Rangers now - were there any strangers in Barossa Barracks??

Paul.

Yes, I couldn't remember if the Irish Rangers were in Barossa (McLeod) or Peninsula (PofW) but knew it was one of the two.

And thanks for the memory jog....it was 2 Field Reg't in the other barracks....didn't have much interaction with them, as I recall.

I didn't know, during that period, that the 69th was also there...I sure wasn't aware of any Americans kicking around and certainly no kids of Americans....but maybe the detachment was made up mainly of young single guys?

Any strangers in Barossa Bks... you mean stranger than some of the Irish Ranger squaddies???? LOL [quickly ducks]

In reference to the Americans Steph. If they were married they lived in British PMQ's in Menden with the 50th Missile. Single rats lived in the unit in Fort P of W. They controled the war heads for 50 Missile Regt and 1 SSM Bty

Stephen Lock wrote:

One of the main reasons I originally accessed BAOR-locations was to get more information/make contact with individuals I might have known during my time amongst the British families in Hemer (1971-72) and Soest (73-74).

Interestingly enough, there hasn't been a lot, if any, presence from former Irish Rangers (which was the regiment that was stationed in Hemer when I was living in Iserlohn) or dependents thereof.

I'd enjoy hearing from any Rangers, or more exactly from dependents as they'd more like be contemporaries of mine and maybe we'd share some memories of our time in Hemer.

At the same time the Irish Rangers were in Hemer there was another regiment/unit stationed there as well, but I can't now remember what it was. Most of the families living in the Hemer Married Quarter area along Zeppliner Strasse were Irish Ranger, but of course they were not the only families there.

I now forget, off hand, which of the old barracks the Irish Rangers were based out of...I think it was one of the two barracks in Deilinghofen.

Of course, there were those two camps, as well as the two (or was it three?) barracks located between Hemer and Iserlohn and in Iserlohn itself so clearly there were more personnel than just the Irish Rangers kicking around. I'd enjoy hearing from anyone associated with them as well.

Ciao for now


Stephen

Just for interest sake, the first British soldier to be killed at BATUS was a young Irish Ranger in May/June 1972. Ian.

I lived in Berlinner Strasse (Hemer) 1971 - 1974, and many Irish Ranger families were good friends and great neighbours. As a teenager I worked for a German Dry Cleaner and we used to collect uniforms and fatigues for dry cleaning from the squadies in Barossa Camp - the German driver could not understand a word the lads said I am sure I was just used as a translator.

I don't think I'm talking out of turn but there was a bad blood between the 2 regiments in Hemer at the time - not surprising I suppose with one lot doing stints in Northern Ireland and coming back wanting to take their anger out on the Irish lads. Nothing too bad just a few scuffles in bars as far as I knew.

Anyone have any recollection of this.

Gwynno wrote:

......I don't think I'm talking out of turn but there was a bad blood between the 2 regiments in Hemer at the time - not surprising I suppose with one lot doing stints in Northern Ireland and coming back wanting to take their anger out on the Irish lads. Nothing too bad just a few scuffles in bars as far as I knew.

Anyone have any recollection of this.

I was attached to 2 Fd RA during most of the time you state. There was some " bad blood", but I don't think it amounted to anything really serious and was usually stirred up by those on both sides who would have fought with their own shadow. I think the worst time was when 2 Fd RA lost a man, I believe it was Sid Freeth, who I think was ex-RA, transferred across to the REME, and I am led to think that he transferred back again. I may be wrong (usually am )

Paul.

I seem to vaguely recall a few dust-ups between various sets of squaddies in some of the gasthofs and, as I recall, it sometimes had something to do with one set being Irish...odd, actually, as while I can understand the emotions felt by a British soldier who served over in Belfast, going after a BRITISH army type who was part of an Irish regiment in the BRITISH army seems a bit off.

If a young fellow from Ulster joined the Irish Rangers, clearly he was pro-British and not a Republican, much less IRA.

Of course, I was in Hemer at the time of The Troubles and it was always complicated. Many families had members on 'both sides' of the issue. I remember one fellow I chummed with who came from an Orange and Green family (Dad was Irish Catholic, mom was Irish Protestant and VERY pro-English...more English than English, actually. almost what used to be called Lace-Curtain Irish. she didn't care for most of the 'little ruffians' Dave hung around with and barely tolerated me!).

Another fellow I chummed with was a skinhead and while his dad was a damn good sergeant and very devoted to the regiment he, on the other hand, kind of chafed under all that. He wanted to get back to Ireland and fight....I can't now remember which side he wanted to fight for but I seem to recall it was NOT the Unionists. We didn't get into it much as it always ended up in an argument. His best mate, also a young skinhead type, ended up joining the Royal Marines. Whether those two ever kept in contact, I don't know. They were quite tight.

As Paul mentioned, many of the young squaddies would 'fight with their own shadow.' I came across it in Hemer and I came across it in Soest...they'd fight German civilians, they'd fight each other, they'd fight fellows from other regiments, and in Soest they'd fight with the Belgiques (so did the Canadian guys...poor Belgiques could never figure out why!). The tendency to 'head butt' was totally foreign to German civilians and the Belgiques and always took them by surprise. Plus, it was viewed as a bit...hmm...unfair, not sporting, off, dirty actually.

i was in hemer when i royal irish and then 2 royal irish were there and remember the trouble in and around hemer and iserlohn when 2 field regt ra came back from an op banner tour.but there was more trouble when the second batt. took over from the first.down town hemer became a no go area.i found out there was alot of bad blood between the two battalions.things settled down once the handover at barrossa bks was complete.graham.

Hmmmm...as I look back I seem to remember that downtown Hemer was a 'no go.' Which could possibly explain why the crowd of guys I hung out with never went to any of the gasthofs the Canadian kids did in Hemer but set out and found their own (one, especially, in Stephanopel, down behind the glass (?) factory).

Of course, part of this would be one set (us) found interesting or whatever places and the next set (the Brits) operated under a whole different set of circumstances and found their own places.

In Soest, to a certain degree, there was some overlap and so some of the Canadian kids would show some of the British kids various hangouts.

Paul wrote:

Gwynno wrote:

......I don't think I'm talking out of turn but there was a bad blood between the 2 regiments in Hemer at the time - not surprising I suppose with one lot doing stints in Northern Ireland and coming back wanting to take their anger out on the Irish lads. Nothing too bad just a few scuffles in bars as far as I knew.

Anyone have any recollection of this.

I was attached to 2 Fd RA during most of the time you state. There was some " bad blood", but I don't think it amounted to anything really serious and was usually stirred up by those on both sides who would have fought with their own shadow. I think the worst time was when 2 Fd RA lost a man, I believe it was Sid Freeth, who I think was ex-RA, transferred across to the REME, and I am led to think that he transferred back again. I may be wrong (usually am )

Hi Paul,
It was your discussion on this subject that caused me to register on this site. (Let's hope I'm doing it right !).
While the name Sid Freed rings a faint bell with me, the man we lost in Andersonstown was Sgt Chas Coleman.
Chas and another bloke, (who's name eludes me), were REME Cpl Gun Fitters and realising that there was better pay to be had, transferred to the RA.
At the time of his death Chas was a gun No.1 in N Bty (The Eagle Troop) and one of the Sgts in 6 Troop, based in Andytown bus station.
On the subject of aggro with the Irish Rangers, I saw very little of it. It was said at the time, though, that the Battalion then in residence were warned not to cause trouble with their Gunner neighbours or great would be their grief!
Bazza.


Paul.

[quote]

I can't speak for the rest, but my experience with some of the Irish Rangers bunch was these were definitely fellows you'd want watching your back, not launching a butt-headed attack to your front!!

Many of junior ranks, and a few of the NCOs, hailed from some pretty rough neighbourhoods in Ireland...mainly Ulster, of course (which was why they were in the British Army)...and as a result had early on learned how to get what they wanted by scrabbling for it. A tougher bunch I've not come across and few of them had any illusions about anything.

There was also -- keeping in mind this was the '70s and The Troubles were at high doe -- the reality that they were Irishmen in a British army.

Regardless of whether or not they perceived themselves as "British" themselves -- and some did -- they saw themselves first and foremost as Irish and there was an inherent conflict going on, I would imagine, within each of them between being "Irish" and being "British" and a whole history of various serpentine connections back home.

I know a few who, because they chose to join up with a British army regiment, even if it was Irish, caused some serious rifts within their extended family. Not all who were in the Irish Rangers were Protestant (and therefore, assumedly, more sympathetic to the "occupation"). Those that happened to be Catholic, but pro-British, really faced some serious issues. I recall one family I got to know having been told that if they ever returned to Ireland they were dead! What a thing to live under.

So...if the junior ranks, many of whom didn't have much education either, were dealing with such onerous issues, and perhaps not really able to articulate them very well, is it any wonder they often dealt with the frustration and, yes, anger by fighting? For many of them, that's all they knew. You either made love (f****ed), drank, or fought...and not necessarily in that order :-)

I think you've got it more or less right Steven. Even so, there are men from Ulster who don't like being called Irish and a lot more who don't give a s*** either way.
When I lived in Hemer we had an Irish family living in our block. The husband was one of those who will never be able to "go home".
Believe it or not there was a funny side to it. This guy's wife went home to see her mother, who lived in a very dangerous part of Belfast. One day, as they passed a soldier, armed with a SLR, the little boy went up to him and, pointing to the rifle said, in a broad Belfast accent "my Daddy's got one of them". The kid's mother said that the expression on the soldier's face was a joy to behold. He looked quite disappointed when she went over and explained things to him!

Absolutely there'd be individuals in any group who don't identify as part of that group or who really don't give it much thought either way.

I live in Canada and in the province of Alberta, in the city of Calgary, as an example. While I do identify as "Canadian" and quite often as a "Calgarian", I don't really identify myself as "Albertan" as such. Others will identify me that way because I live in Alberta but I see myself as a transplant here (even though I've lived here now for 37-odd years!).

I don't share much of what could be described as an Alberta mindset (predominantly rural, somewhat 'redneck' (stereotypically), both small and large "c" conservative,salt-of-the-earth, blah blah blah), in fact I often find myself at direct odds with that ethos -- being urban, 'lib-left', certainly not either small or large 'c' conservative (quite liberal in my social/political/cultural/etc views) -- which can make for some interesting situations!

So, yeah, for sure not all those in the Irish Rangers, even if they were as Irish as a shamrock, would view themselves as "Irish."

Part of that, I suspect, is the social position "those damned Irish" have occupied in the British class system and a rejection of that.

Rather than rejecting the prejudice behind the reaction to anything Irish they -- for a host of complex reasons -- reject being Irish. It's not an unusual reaction within many minorities, actually.

When did you live in Hemer? And whereabouts did you live?

Heaven knows what the soldier thought hearing what he no doubt perceived as a little Belfast Irish lad informing him "his da' " had a weapon like the one he was carrying! IRA!!!!!

When I was in Hemer, I was friends with a boy whose family was Orange and Green. His dad was working class Irish Protestant and his mother was middleclass Irish Catholic. She was not particularly well liked by many of the other Irish Ranger wives as they saw her as putting on airs, a bit too hoity-toity. I suppose what used to be referred to pejoratively as "Lace Curtain Irish."

David was heavily monitored by his mom who really tried to discourage him chumming around with certain 'types.' Poor guy, he didn't have a lot of choice for one thing; either he chummed with some of the "rougher" elements -- most of whom were nice kids just had accents so broad and not the most refined of manners -- or spend his teen years cooped up in his room with no friends at all.

I was somewhat acceptable as my mother's family were English (as opposed to "British"), from Salisbury and various parts of Sussex, and "genteel." However, I was also -- unfortunately -- a "colonial."

She encouraged David to study violin. His dad encouraged him to play sports and rough it up a bit. She was deeply concerned he'd injure his fingers. When I knew David, her side was pretty much dominant.

She had no real desire to 'go home.' The dad couldn't. David didn't really see himself, as you've pointed out, as "Irish", although he was very Irish...what he wanted was to be English, just as his mom tried to style herself as (including dropping an even remotely Irish accent in favour of some ersatz "English" one. Didn't work too well LOL. She'd cringe whenever David slipped into a "mick accent.")

Another family whose son was one of my buddies were definitely working class Irish...from County Armagh as I recall. The dad was an NCO and a career Army sort. The son who I buddied with was a tough little nut, skinhead, and -- to his father's consternation -- quite Republican in his sympathies. I don't know if his father ever knew, but Sean (?) was planning on returning to Ireland some day and joining up with the IRA! Part of that, I suspect, was teenage rebellion and a rather idealistic view of the world, but i really doubt he ever ended up in Her Majesty's military!! But odder things have happened...

His best mate, Noel, did end up joining the Royal Marines and was planning on doing so when I knew them both (age 16 and 17 at the time). They'd get into heated arguments about that all the time. Still, they were best mates through it all.

I saw some of Alberta in the 70's when I was there with the Irish Hussars Battle Group-God, it's big! I seem to have spent most of my time driving around in a "Dooce 'n a haff" delivering cans of raid to our gun positions. The gun detachments were being devoured by mosquitos.
I was amazed to find, when I asked why all the roads in BATUS were circular and radiated from a central point that the area was originally going to be a nuclear testing zone. It seems the discovery of oil and gas put a stop to that!
We lived in Hemer '71-77, in a little road off Berliner Str called Am Hang. It was later renamed Marienburger Str. Nice place Hemer, and the Sauerland too, I bet you Canucks hated having to leave. My eldest son was born in '63, I doubt if he'd have moved in the same circles as you!

Hello - I'm glad I've found this site. My father recently passed away, and I have since been putting all the strands of our army life together. In the very early 1970s we lived in Hemer but I have very little recollection of it, except that we lived in a block of flats not far from a main road that I remember being in a Quadrangle, with cellars underneath.... we lived opposite a family with two twin boys - Derek and David. I used to catch the bus in the mornings to go to the local school (primary). That's all I can remember really - but it would be great if some one could throw some light on where this could possibly have been (I've read of two different barracks in Hemer for married families) and, if possible, some photographs. My father's name was Derek McFarland and he serve also in Malaya, Hong Kong, Cyprus, Aden and other places, and was originally from Derry, N. Ireland.
Thanks

Have you had a look here

https://bfg-locations.editboard.com/f100-hemer

or nere

http://picasaweb.google.com/historicsteve/HemerFormerMarriedQuartersAroundBerlinerStrasse?feat=directlink[url]#

Thanks for these links and yes I do suddenly remember the flats noe although I don't think they looked so clean and spruce when we lived there!
thanks again

Since becoming 'civvie' the old Hemer Married Quarters were, at least orginally, spruced up a bit although I have heard from a few Canadians who have gone back to visit they have 'slipped' a bit.

When the Canadians lived there back in the early 60s I remember all the blocks were a dingy grey colour....very drab. And the grounds were not very well kept either, with large patches of dead grass or earth.

When we returned in the early 70s it had improved considerably. Most of the blocks had got a coat of paint (various pastels....not as 'ugh' as it sounds) and the grassy areas pretty much got reseeded. All in all, the area looked not half-bad.

We then went up to Soest for a year and the Hemer site was taken over by British. When my family returned to the area and lived in Iserlohn and I'd go into Hemer regularly, I was struck by how shoddy the area had become. Upkeep of the blocks -- and I have no idea who would be responsible for that -- had obviously been neglected and the large expanses of grassy areas had again reverted to muck and bare patches. Many of the 'repainted' blocks had large chunks of plaster peeling off....

Those blocks of flats must now be at least 50 - 60 years old and would require ongoing maintenance (ha! Don't we all???) and I know a few of them, at least, have had some updating re windows and entry ways and such. A few had flower gardens planted out front, which goes a long way to having a place appear "nice".

Back in '72, unfortunately, it did all take on the appearance of a 'housing estate'....

Thanks for all this. I don't remember that much about the area...but I do remember it being shoddy and a very, very dull place to live... as children we played more inside the flats (in the cellars and on the stairs/landings) rather than outside, because as you say, there were very few nice places to play. But it was good to have sight of the old place again - jogged my memory.
But most army quarters were not very nice places to live really - quite 'prison' like, sprawling and dull...

M

I suppose.

I do know the married quarters in Soest were actually rather nice. All white-washed, lots of large trees, nice mix of sun and shade, and the grass -- while of course rather bare in some spots -- was, over all, not too badly maintained. The parking area around the CANEX (NAAFI) was always a bit messy....wrappers and such....but that is not unusual for any store's parking lot.

Interestingly, I do recall the Married Quarters in Soest as having definite "zones" to them....down around where I lived on Kanadischer Weg, in behind the heating plant wasn't bad. St Lorenz Weg wasn't bad either. Certainly the officer lines on the north edge towards downtown were quite well kept and with nice housing (go figure!!!), not the 3-storey blocks we all lived in. But as one went south to the other end and over by the primary school it got a bit shoddier. I rarely was up that way anyway and so it also seemed a bit "foreign" to me....nobody I knew lived down there!

Of course, when we weren't all high-tailing off to the gasthofs and discos downtown, we hung out at our Teen Hut over in behind Milch Bar (aka "Paddy's") across from the front section of the heating plant. At that time it was a Quonset Hut later demolished to make room for the annex the Belgiques added to the school that was Soest Jr. and Sr. High School under the Canadians (also always well maintained).

For some reason, Hemer was -- even under the Canadians -- a bit shoddier than Soest. Not sure why that was, to be honest. It wasn't that much larger than Soest's.

Stephen Lock wrote:

We then went up to Soest for a year and the Hemer site was taken over by British. When my family returned to the area and lived in Iserlohn and I'd go into Hemer regularly, I was struck by how shoddy the area had become. Upkeep of the blocks -- and I have no idea who would be responsible for that -- had obviously been neglected and the large expanses of grassy areas had again reverted to muck and bare patches. Many of the 'repainted' blocks had large chunks of plaster peeling off....

Back in '72, unfortunately, it did all take on the appearance of a 'housing estate'....

The thing to remember about married quarters, Stephen, is that they are only a temporary home for most people. Why spend money improving the look of a place, only to be posted away ?

The Hemer quarters WERE shabby to look at, (I can't remember large chunks of plaster peeling off though !) and the grassed areas were bald because the kids played on them. I was lucky, I lived on Am Hang, (later Marienburger Str), off Berliner Str. and it was surrounded by trees which softened the stark outline of the old Canadian blocks.

Things improved in the mid-'70s though, the blocks were painted and the old windows replaced.

Hemer, without doubt, was the nicest place my family ever lived in, whether it looked dull or not.

brum wrote:

Stephen Lock wrote:

We then went up to Soest for a year and the Hemer site was taken over by British. When my family returned to the area and lived in Iserlohn and I'd go into Hemer regularly, I was struck by how shoddy the area had become. Upkeep of the blocks -- and I have no idea who would be responsible for that -- had obviously been neglected and the large expanses of grassy areas had again reverted to muck and bare patches. Many of the 'repainted' blocks had large chunks of plaster peeling off....

Back in '72, unfortunately, it did all take on the appearance of a 'housing estate'....

The thing to remember about married quarters, Stephen, is that they are only a temporary home for most people. Why spend money improving the look of a place, only to be posted away ?

The Hemer quarters WERE shabby to look at, (I can't remember large chunks of plaster peeling off though !) and the grassed areas were bald because the kids played on them. I was lucky, I lived on Am Hang, (later Marienburger Str), off Berliner Str. and it was surrounded by trees which softened the stark outline of the old Canadian blocks.

Things improved in the mid-'70s though, the blocks were painted and the old windows replaced.

Hemer, without doubt, was the nicest place my family ever lived in, whether it looked dull or not.

Well, yes, that is quite true. When I read that it made me realize I spent a lifetime living in 'temporary homes' but Mom always made sure it was home even if we were only there for a year or two. I've always rented (almost bought a few years ago, didn't, opportunity (and finances!!) passed). My attitude to every place I've lived in was it was "mine" even though, of course, it really wasn't and I just never grasped the attitude of various neighbours to it all....they very much viewed their accommodations as "temporary" and just didn't give a damn, or not very much of one! Slobs.

Of course, there are "large chunks" and "LARGE chunks" of plaster....corners of buildings down at the foundation, that sort of thing....maybe 12" by 10" not "massive"....

The Berliner Strasse 'bow' was not bad in places and, yes, the Am Hang bit with it's trees, and being off the 'beaten path', as it were, was nice....I quite liked the trees over there...not being an arborist, I don't know what they were....elms, I suppose, lindens, oaks perhaps.

I lived in Linden Allee in Werl, and from memory it was quite nice. Linden commonly means Lime tree, though there are other varieties

"Linden" is a popular motif, or at least it was up in Northern Germany.....streets named Am Linden or whatever, gasthofs with the name in it somewhere (Zum Linden etc.)...in fact, one of the favourite gasthofs of Canadian teens in Soest, along Hiddingser Weg across from the then-Belgigue Kaserne (now gone and a housing development is there instead) and what we called "Isenbeck's" (because that was the beer it sold) was "An Der Linden" or "Zur Linden" or some such....it is now a veterinarian's clinic!