Weird Ranks and Traditions

jim wrote:

I always wondered how you could tell the difference between a Yeoman and a foreman anyway.

Outwardly I suppose the Yeoman would be smarter in appearance, whereas the Foreman would be smarter in the brain Dept.

(Digs in and waits for the barrage).

Foreman was the techie side and usually a bigger prick than the yeomen who were more the operating/crypto side.

Never forgotten that pumped up git of a foreman at Catterick who charged everyone on guard for alleged dirty kit when it was spotless. Sat there like one of the gestapo peeling off his leather gloves while he did it. Virtually having an orgasm at the same time.

Thankfully our SSM had a quiet word. Still remember his name.

mjm34 wrote:

Mike_2817 wrote:

Custom within the RAOC and many other messes as well Brum, which I escaped it as I was made Substantive Sergeant backdated, and we had an Acting Sergeant who I immediately outranked much to his disgust! He triad to pull a flanker by volunteering for duty, but the RSM felt he needed the practise, and he got 6 more extras on the night, but I managed 3 extras anyway! but only did 1 of them as I was on tour in NI within a week, and they were forgot about!

Yep, also the way Mr-vice was selected in R Signals WOs & Joes Messes. Like you Mike I managed to bodyswerve the "honour" by being promoted sub on the same day as another guy got acting.

Mind you I did get lumbered as Property Member

Mike

Also did Property Member, which was OK as the guy before had done a great job updating it, and I managed to hand over in the same condition(ish) but managed to avoid doing any other duties after that, mainly by being attached to other units.

jim wrote:

Actually, are you saying that not all SSGT's in the Signals were Yeomen or Foremen then Mike?

We had troop staff sergeants. GD I suppose? I think the chief clerk at 20 Armd was one as well? Most foremen/yeomen that I came across were WO rank.

Hmmm, I knew a YOS who was a SSGT, it must have been a trade thing then maybe?

Y 0f S and F of S start as S/Sgt and progress through WO11 and WO1.The better ones get commisioned and become Traffic Officers or TOT`s.
The lowest ranking F of S i came across was a Sgt although i have heard there was a signalman F of S at Catterick..Probably the same guy
The highest ranking TOT was a Lt/Col at FEAF

And yes the foremen were more blessed in the brain department

jim wrote:

Actually, are you saying that not all SSGT's in the Signals were Yeomen or Foremen then Mike?

Yes, that's the case. As well as YoS and FoS, there were GD guys who did Troop SSgt, SQMS etc. Gordon has explained the difference between a YoS and FoS above, and just to complicate matters even further you could also have a SSgt (Radio Supervisor) as well as Operators and Techs who were SSgts but not YoS or FoS.

Mike

Teabag wrote:

Foreman was the techie side and usually a bigger prick than the yeomen who were more the operating/crypto side.

Never forgotten that pumped up git of a foreman at Catterick who charged everyone on guard for alleged dirty kit when it was spotless. Sat there like one of the gestapo peeling off his leather gloves while he did it. Virtually having an orgasm at the same time.

Thankfully our SSM had a quiet word. Still remember his name.

Hmmm! I'm not sure about the "bigger prick" bit I came across some YoSs who thought they were ersatz RSMs too.

If the guy that you mention above is who I think he is, then he was deffo an exception rather than the rule. Would it be around 1973 at 8 Sigs and a certain WOI (FoS) B*****n? If so then I also experienced his brand of BS because he was Regtl FoS and I was in TM troop for a while waiting for my T1 course. I certainly would never want to be Guard Commander when he was Orderly Officer. A prick indeed but please don't tar all FoSs with the same brush

Mike

mjm34 wrote:

Teabag wrote:

Foreman was the techie side and usually a bigger prick than the yeomen who were more the operating/crypto side.

Never forgotten that pumped up git of a foreman at Catterick who charged everyone on guard for alleged dirty kit when it was spotless. Sat there like one of the gestapo peeling off his leather gloves while he did it. Virtually having an orgasm at the same time.

Thankfully our SSM had a quiet word. Still remember his name.

Hmmm! I'm not sure about the "bigger prick" bit I came across some YoSs who thought they were ersatz RSMs too.

If the guy that you mention above is who I think he is, then he was deffo an exception rather than the rule. Would it be around 1973 at 8 Sigs and a certain WOI (FoS) B*****n? If so then I also experienced his brand of BS because he was Regtl FoS and I was in TM troop for a while waiting for my T1 course. I certainly would never want to be Guard Commander when he was Orderly Officer. A prick indeed but please don't tar all FoSs with the same brush

Mike

Sorry Mike no offence. You are absolutely spot on and I am glad I am not the only one. One incident like that can turn you against some people which is patently unfair.

He was obviously well known for it. I'm a great believer in karma and I am sure he got his eventually.

Quote :

and Techs who were SSgts but not FoS

When did this happen?When i left in 70 the highest tech rank was Sgt,The only way forward was to go F of S or GD.

Gordon. wrote:

Quote :

and Techs who were SSgts but not FoS

When did this happen?When i left in 70 the highest tech rank was Sgt,The only way forward was to go F of S or GD.

Hi Gordon. That changed in the mid '70s or thereabouts, you could then become a SSgt and still remain employed as a Tech. Any higher and you would probably have to go the GD route as presumably you would already have foregone becoming FoS.

Hard rations

I think the practise of clearing the Mess Table before the Port is circulated was introduced to prevent the "King over the water" being toasted

An interesting topic this though sadly a number of the traditions have been lost with the recent round of Regimental amalgamations

Two more that someone may confirm

Firstly I believe there was atleast one Regiment (not Guards) who did not propose the Loyal Toast unless there were foreign guests present -the explanation being that their loyalty to the British Sovereign would never be questioned

Secondly there was one Regiment (Cavalry?) who continued talking during the Toast- the explanation being that the Prince Regent had said words to the efect "cut that c...p I'm enjoying myself!!" during a visit to the Mess

Bless you JPW, someone the same age as me !

In our mess we proposed the Loyal Toast regardless of who was present.
What pissed us off was that after "Ladies to the buffet" the local Burgers and dignitaries would hoover their way through the delicacies and leave us peasants with the unwanted.
In an Iserlohner Pilsner induced haze once, I was happily munching some black rubbery things to be told by my mad mate that I was eating snails. Worse was to come when some red crunchy things turned out to be chilli peppers. "Fart carefully, soldier !".

Hardrations wrote:

What about the toast to the Sovereign, being passed over the water? A Jacobite thingy I think.

I was thinking about this as well.

At least in Canadian Messes, all water goblets are removed prior to the Toast.

The tradition, as I understand it, was back in the day (Jacobite and Bonnie Prince Charlie) some would comply with the Toast to the (then) King only pass their glasses over the water goblets, signifying a toast to the "King" over the water, The Pretender, Charles aka Bonnie Prince Charlie, who was then exiled in France.

When I was called for the toast to the cook (me.... yes me) I would be of course brought to the head table to receive this from the Mess President. The conversation usually went like this, " Here's your Coca Cola M/Cpl Campbell. I'll drink your port for you". Me, " Thank you sir". Yes a non drinking cook. Strange world. Eh....

We had the deep joy of a second guard muster at 10.00Pm Because Lord Cardigan died at that time. Best boots on best boots off, best boots on best boots off. Apart from if memory serves when we were in Berlin and Chaz wavered it.

In most places I was posted we had Staff Parade at 2200 Hrs (24 Hour Clock and all that) with the Gaurd less pickets on parade.

In our Mess the port decanter wasn't allowed to touch the table until empty or it returned to Mr President. You had to receive it, fill your glass and then pass it on - all without it touching the table. Never found out why.

ChrisP wrote:

In our Mess the port decanter wasn't allowed to touch the table until empty or it returned to Mr President. You had to receive it, fill your glass and then pass it on - all without it touching the table. Never found out why.

Bar steward, probably was trying to save on the cleaning bill

Couple more have come to mind

In a number of Scottish Regiments during formal Regimental Dinners it was customary to have a short musical interlude after the Loyal Toast before everyone left the table. This was given by a lone Bagpiper and after his set he would be offered a Piper's dram (neat whisky) in a ceremonial quaich by the PMC. This he would down in one, turn the quaich over, kiss the base to show it was empty and offer the greeting "Slaingh" before marching out of the room.

A second unique tradition was the Regimental Hymns of the 12th Lancers. The story goes that the Regiment was stationed in the Rome area for a short time in the 1790s. Their conduct so impressed the then Pope who presented the Regiment with a set of religous music. This was subsequently played by The Regiment's Band on a Parade on a regular (weekly?) basis . The tradition was carried forward after the amalgamation to form the 9/12 Lancers but must have ceased when the majority of Regimental Bands were cut in the 1990s.

ChrisP wrote:

In our Mess the port decanter wasn't allowed to touch the table until empty or it returned to Mr President. You had to receive it, fill your glass and then pass it on - all without it touching the table. Never found out why.

Off hand, I suspect it had something to do with ensuring nobody poisoned the port, slip some sort of powder into it ala Lucretia Borgia. If it is "passed off" continuously, with each recipient pouring himself a draught, the likelihood of some nefarious type slipping poison into it would be greatly reduced.

The use of testers when passing the port around likely proved unworkable...the poor sod would be blotto and under the table by the time the decanter got half way down the table!! LOL

JPW wrote:

A second unique tradition was the Regimental Hymns of the 12th Lancers. The story goes that the Regiment was stationed in the Rome area for a short time in the 1790s. Their conduct so impressed the then Pope who presented the Regiment with a set of religous music. This was subsequently played by The Regiment's Band on a Parade on a regular (weekly?) basis . The tradition was carried forward after the amalgamation to form the 9/12 Lancers but must have ceased when the majority of Regimental Bands were cut in the 1990s.

Whoa! Wonder how such a "Papist" tradition went over with died-in-the-wool Protestants?? Nice touch, though.

When I joined 24 Msl Regt in 1971, Class T1 Survey Bombardiers wore 2 Stripes and a Crown and were known as S/Bdrs. My Son, who was in the Life Guards, finished up as a WO2 (Farrier Quartermaster Corporal). This appointment, as far as I am aware, is unique in the British Army.

S/Bombardiers ? That's a new one on me.

Was it something that the regiment did internally Shelldrake ?

Some officers were also presented medals by the pope as well!
When I was going through boot camp we had a designated MP who chased away emus ( big flighless useless bird...like a politician with long legs! ) who would stroll onto the parade ground and attack a chaps slouch hat! He was known as the "Top Chook"