Would You Join the Army again?

[quote=".................. ex CGS General Sir Mike Jackson (who in my opinion usually tended to agree with politicians) said, relying so heavily on the TA is 'optomistic'. [/quote]

Time for some more informed opinion maybe....... After NS I joined the local TA gunner unit. At that time ,,,,,, Late 1950's to 1960s..... I reckon they were trained up enough to match some regular units. The CO, almost all the SNCOs and one or two ORs. were war service, they'd learned their trade in N Africa & Italy in 8th Army. That was the experienced core of the regt, added to it were several ex NS men plus the inevitable complete beginners. However, even this last group were keen enough and it didn't take much training to dig a gunpit or hump 25 pdr rounds from limber to back end of gun until they became more useful.

There were two reorgs in the 60' s. Firstly we combined with a local Lt. Ack Ack
regt, swapped 25 pdrs for 40 mm. A core of war service Bofors gunners were still around but were getting older, as were the experienced CO & Bty Cdrs. After two years with a similar unit the change suited me no end, I could take an OP out into the sticks with more confidence than I had as a half trained TARA. I could compare the TA lads with the BAOR regt I'd been in, both regts. won the annual Sunday Times cup for ack ack units, both were pretty good at their role. It didn't last. Mpre political interference in the late 1960 disbanded the Regt, that's how I rebadged briefly to R. Sigs, then to Sappers.

TA disappeared, TAVR took over, there was much more integration with the Regular Army, roles were redefined. Briefly, most would end up in Germany if the Ivans got stroppy, but it still needed a Royal Proclamation to get TAVR out of UK. The reorg had decimated TA units that remained, Drill Halls which once housed regimental strength formations now might just have a company, a sqn. etc. in house, RHQ could be 40 miles away. To get the new formation off the ground, reg. COs & OCs took over, in my case two Reg WOII s came in to oversee trg & Q matters. They hated it at first, but it worked.

I'm going to jump forward, miss out some relevant stuff, but I came to some conclusions eventually when it was dictated by regt that individuals in sub units would put on paper their thoughts on a proposition which stated that TAVR units were much cheaper run than the equivalent regular formation and, therefore, are better value. I wasn't popular for coming up with something like the following conclusions:-

A TAVR squaddy on the roster can never be as much use as a reg. on the ground. You can't pick him up sling him in the back of a 4 tonner at a minute's notice and ship him out of UK. At one annual camp in NW Scotland, less than half the rank and file in a sapper sqn turned up when individuals decided the track building task had little appeal. That was unusual, really, but it happened.

With some experience of the Reg Army, and little scope of cadre trg. in Reserve Army I concluded that there were, for example, SNCOs in TAVR who would be lucky to make lance-jack in a Reg. regt. Not their fault, always, but trg. time was limited

I believed the units ran more efficiently when the OC was a regular and suggested that a stronger reg. element should be part of TAVR establishment and that only exceptional and experienced TAVR officers should command at company/ sqn level and above. Definitely unpopular that one.

I proposed that it would be more sensible to post out TAVR soldiers into reg. formations as individuals, & not as a unit. Their terms of service must be altered to make them available for contingencies other than general war. (As they are now ). A TAVR unit, shipped out to BAOR, say, in an emergency, could be an embarrassment. At annual camp it could take up to 3 days for the rank & file to switch on, in 3 days the Ivans expected to be in Calais queuing for the next ferry to Dover.

Don't dismiss the TAVR soldiers too lightly, there are many dedicated, good blokes in their number. Like their regular comrades there's top notch and indifferent, calling them all STABS is unkind. But I reckon Gen Jackson might have a point !

rucjock21 wrote:

I remember in Plymouth Seaton Bks cookhouse when one of the Jocks called one of the ACC cooks "a c**t".................

That's where it started Jock was it ?

A reference to it came up at a gathering where the wives were present, the one that raised it was asked by one to give the full story. He agreed but said he'd tone it down a bit, he meant to substitute "bastard" for "c**t". It was a good try, but maybe he'd taken in too much fizzy pop. It came out as " Who called the bastard a c**t........." There was a brief period of silence until one puzzled wife asked " Is that funny ? Can you tell us what it would have been if you'd not toned it down
a bit ".

Not sure where this statement started but it was definitely stated when I was in the cookhoose at the time.I'm sure the person who came out with comment heard it somewhere else and decided to have a laugh with the cook sgt.

I would imagine that it was first heard around the middle of March 1941.

Definitely around in the early 50's ..


Len (Ciphers)

We used to hear bemedalled old WW2 vets say it in 59/60.

Loved my 12 years and would do exactly the same again, but 12 years was enough as there is so much more to do in such a short lifetime.

Been out for over 23 years and still do not regret my decision to join up. Took my fathers advice and made sure I got a trade - that's why I joined REME. Managed to complete a full colour service (22years)

Given the chance I would join up again tomorrow as I still miss the camaraderie that existed at all rank levels

i would do it all again , but not in todays modern army , it must be bloody boring sitting in your own little room watching telly , much prefer 40 bods bulling boots in nissen hut and hours of good natured banter , ginger

A lot to be said about that Ginger..

Every generation of the 'old & bold' must ask itself the same question. I can only imagine what today's new entrant will be saying about the 'new Army' in 30-40 years time when he's out in civvy street with no pension (as that will have been done away with by that time). Could you imagine if we were around in say 40-50 years time? Comparing the new weaponry against the old? Arguing the toss that you'd have an SLR over a 'laser gun' any day of the week. Or the merits of a pair of DMS & puttees over some 'hover-boots'? ;-)

Rocky wrote:

Every generation of the 'old & bold' must ask itself the same question. I can only imagine what today's new entrant will be saying about the 'new Army' in 30-40 years time when he's out in civvy street with no pension Or the merits of a pair of DMS & puttees over some 'hover-boots'? ;-)

Boots, Ammunition prs no longer on issue then!!

Looking at some old photographs of the Jock regiments during the first world war and second world war the headdress of the ordinary ranks made me laugh.The Tam-O-Shanter in particular.The sizes of them and the angle they were worn by some men beggars belief.The officers headdress was a respectable looking bunnet in that it was tailored to fit the head and no doubt bought by the individual officer and the ordinary ranks were issued with what I would call a doo lander.Did anyone buy their own beret/hat/TOS instead of wearing the one you were issued with.

rucjock21 wrote:

Looking at some old photographs of the Jock regiments during the first world war and second world war the headdress of the ordinary ranks made me laugh.The Tam-O-Shanter in particular.The sizes of them and the angle they were worn by some men beggars belief.The officers headdress was a respectable looking bunnet in that it was tailored to fit the head and no doubt bought by the individual officer and the ordinary ranks were issued with what I would call a doo lander.Did anyone buy their own beret/hat/TOS instead of wearing the one you were issued with.

Well this does pose a question. Is it relevant how your head dress looks just before you die in battle?

Yes it does.Why then do officers wear tailored headdress? Is it because they have to look smart in order to die or meet the enemy.

Yes, I would do it again, especially now that the Canadian Forces have more or less de-amalgamated. (It's a long story and is mentioned on other threads if you're not Canadian). I miss the cammaraderie and the good times, especially in BAOR. I have a few regrets about missed opportunities and so on, but try not to dwell on "what might have been".

Anyway, I enjoy the stories and fellowship that this site offers; speaking of which: I'M BACK! A lot has gone on during the last year since I was on-line.

Cheers.

recce83 wrote:

Yes, I would do it again, especially now that the Canadian Forces have more or less de-amalgamated. (It's a long story and is mentioned on other threads if you're not Canadian). I miss the cammaraderie and the good times, especially in BAOR. I have a few regrets about missed opportunities and so on, but try not to dwell on "what might have been".

Anyway, I enjoy the stories and fellowship that this site offers; speaking of which: I'M BACK! A lot has gone on during the last year since I was on-line.

Cheers.

Fellowship is all important as we all know now.

I tend to agree with you Eric, it was great, but its done now. I think we had the best of times, and i dont think its the same now. i now have a daughter in the RNZAF, and when i go on base i find that many things are still the same i have to say.

rucjock21 wrote:

Yes it does.Why then do officers wear tailored headdress? Is it because they have to look smart in order to die or meet the enemy.

Eff the headdress, give me a couple more rounds and someone is going out with me LOL.

Surely we all remember shrinking our berets in boiling water as young recruits.? (Admit that is impossible with a Tam O' Shanter.)

JPW wrote:

Surely we all remember shrinking our berets in boiling water as young recruits.? (Admit that is impossible with a Tam O' Shanter.)

I have shrunk more than a beret in boiling water in my day LOL

recce83 wrote:

Yes, I would do it again, especially now that the Canadian Forces have more or less de-amalgamated. (It's a long story and is mentioned on other threads if you're not Canadian). I miss the cammaraderie and the good times, especially in BAOR. I have a few regrets about missed opportunities and so on, but try not to dwell on "what might have been".

Anyway, I enjoy the stories and fellowship that this site offers; speaking of which: I'M BACK! A lot has gone on during the last year since I was on-line.

Cheers.

Hi Recce83, welcome back - I was wondering what had happened to you?

If I could replicate the career and times I had I would definitely do it all again, in todays Army I would have think twice.

BobG wrote:

If I could replicate the career and times I had I would definitely do it all again, in todays Army I would have think twice.

You would be wise to think twice.

I wholeheartedly endorse Bob G's opening phrase but would have to alter his conclusion to "in today's Army it would be impossible".