article on BAOR

Hi all. First all of all, this is a great site and thanks for all your contributions, I've sat here bored at work and spent hours reading through the site and the forum

I'm currently working on an article on the BAOR which I hope to submit to a monthly military history magazine. My interest in the BAOR stems from stories my uncles (R Signals and 3 RHA) have told me about serving in Germany in the late 70's, and its always fascinated me. It occurs to me that its a subject thats not really been written about much, surprising considering the number of servicemen and families who must have spent time with the BAOR.

So far I plan to write about the background to how the BAOR (and RAF Germany) came to be, what its role might have been if the red army had rolled across the border, what kind of units were stationed there, the social aspect (the language, schnell imbiss, german customs, that kind of thing), and generally what it was like for young British people to spend several years of their life based in a foreign country that only recently had been the enemy.

I would be very grateful if anyone has any thoughts on the above, or interesting stories, anecdotes, etc that they would be willing to contribute, or even any illustrations that I would be able to use. And if anyone would be interested in reading the article in draft form and making constructive comments I would be more than happy!

Many Thanks,

James

Hi James welcome to the board.

I spent may years in Germany both as a child and then a serving soldier, I would be happy to proof read anything you write and I'm pretty sure I could provide the odd anecdote or two

Jim

Welcome to the Boards James, I hope you enjoy your visits.

Why not make contact with the webmaster as well? I am sure that there could be assistance in both directions.

Paul.

I think this is a great idea! BAOR was a real "presence" in Northern Germany (and what was then West Germany) for many years and, I would venture to say, probably had more influence in their region than the Americans did down around Frankfurt etc. Or maybe it's a toss-up, I don't know

I do know that both British and Canadian troops were far more involved in the local German civilian situation (living on 'the economy' going out to gasthofs, shopping in German shops, etc) than your average American military family was who tended, by and large, to isolate themselves on the various, and large, bases.

Certainly from a Canadian military dependent's perspective, BAOR played a key role in the Canadian experience. I believe (?) in the early years, Canadian troops while not directly under the auspices of BAOR where certainly heavily connected in some fashion. At the time it was simply something normal so I didn't pay that much attention, being far more interested in whatever it was a 6-year old (and later a 16- to 19-year old) was interested in.

Good luck with your project, you've picked a very interesting and diverse subject. Like Jim, I too served in BAOR and spent time there as an Army Brat (1947 onward!). Jim and I both went to the same boarding school in Germany but not at the same time.
I'd be more than happy to help with any information or anecdotes.

And we were in the same Corps John

Indeed we were Jim and although we served together in NI, neither of us knew we went to the same school!

I know John, life can be funny sometimes

hi all, thank you for your replies!

I'm finding it a very interesting subject, to say the least! I've found some interesting reading about the extent to which the BAOR was the 'jewel in the crown' of British defence policy, to the extent when an 'out-of-area' operation like the Falklands occured the troops who were committed were the only ones available who weren't either in the BAOR, NI or earmarked to reinforce either.

Normally I would be very interested to have a chat, armed with dictaphone and/or notebook, but obviously that might be tricky. What I think I might do is work out a kind of questionnaire with some prompting questions, how does that sound?

One more thing, while searching for illustrations I've found theres a lot of photographs out there related to BAOR, especially at the imperial war museum. if you go to www.iwm.org.uk, then click on collections and then photographs and do a search, theres a few hundred photographs there. Theres also a few at www.mirrorpix.com and www.gettyimages.com

While not directly BAOR related, you might also want to check out www.ruhrmemories.ca, which is an "Army Brat" site for Canadian dependents...in amongst the usual school shots, youth club pics etc are photos of various sites dating back to the 50s and some of these might be of interest as, I have mentioned, the Canadian Brigade Area in around Hemer/Iserlohn, Soest and Werl as well as Unna was heavily 'tied in' with BAOR, although exactly what the connection was (we came under its jurisdiction?) I'm not sure.

JamesD, I was also an army brat/.serving soldier, I would be interested in taking your 'questionaire, regards, Ian [ mac]

Hi all, thank you for your comments.

I have finished a draft of my article, if you would like to PM me your email address I will forward you a copy and a brief questionnaire.

Or alternatively you can email me direct at: jpdchamps03ATyahooDOTcom

(just replace the AT with a @ and the DOT with a dot!)

PM on it's way James

Stephen Lock wrote:

While not directly BAOR related, you might also want to check out www.ruhrmemories.ca, which is an "Army Brat" site for Canadian dependents...in amongst the usual school shots, youth club pics etc are photos of various sites dating back to the 50s and some of these might be of interest as, I have mentioned, the Canadian Brigade Area in around Hemer/Iserlohn, Soest and Werl as well as Unna was heavily 'tied in' with BAOR, although exactly what the connection was (we came under its jurisdiction?) I'm not sure.

4 CIBG- 4 Canadian Infantry Brigade Group (later to be 4 CMBG) Came under the command of BOAR while in N/W Germany. It was at it's peak in the mid 60's considered a Light Division by BOAR. When it was sent down south to Lahr and Baden it was still technically part of BOAR. I know we still were issued with a BOAR drivers license, and our wartime stores of ammunition was still stored up north. I found this out in 73 when the Yanks sent all our training ammunition that was stored in their dumps to Israel for the IDF. And for our training to be accomplished the Canadians had to go north and take ammo from our war reserve. Also the Canadian Artillery and Tanks went up north for training as they could get day time firing on the ranges there and only night time on the Yank bases. Again the Canadians qualified for the ranges up north because of being technically being part of BOAR. The thing that got up my nose, was that we no longer got 6 weeks of leave a year as we did up north. When the Army came down south, the powers that be noticed that the RCAF got by on 4 weeks of leave per year. Also there was no longer the free travel warrant good to the first train station out side Germany. I think the Canadian Army lost a lot of benefits because of King Pierre's politics in insisting on moving the Army down south. Also the Brigade became a bit of a joke then. The rumour was that in being close to the Swiss border they could haul butt quickly to Switzerland in case of the balloon going up. The officers had a toast in the mess that went so," We attack at dawn. That way the rest of the day won't be wasted". Ah well, I saw it in it's good days and the in the days when it was going down hill faster than flood water in Manitoba. Now with our troops in Afghanistan they are once more proving their worth to Canada and the world in a positive way. A well trained, well motivated force to be reckoned with.

Interesting Ross,its the first I've heard of that.
Signed ST of the old BB.

Hi james may be you can use some opinion of a Jerry on that means, let me know

have a nice day Gunnie