BAOR No More?

I just wonder how long the British are to stay in Germany? They are certainly NOT going to be responsible for World War III!

Are they (the Germans) not able to pay now for their own defences? They seem to be the only country with any money these days!

Surely we're not there just to make use of the tank training grounds??

Of course, there may be reasons which we don't know about. Any ideas???

Jock (David)

Lighthouseman wrote:

I just wonder how long the British are to stay in Germany? They are certainly NOT going to be responsible for World War III!

Are they (the Germans) not able to pay now for their own defences? They seem to be the only country with any money these days!

Surely we're not there just to make use of the tank training grounds??

Of course, there may be reasons which we don't know about. Any ideas???

Jock (David)

Jock, with the fall of the Wall and the reunification of both Germanys , the collapse of the USSR and the inclusion of some of the Ex Soviet Bloc countries into NATO the threat from the East is no more. Most of the training is now done in Poland where we have pre positioned equipment (like Wainwright and Medicine Hat in Alberta). There was a large draw down of BAOR in the 90s with a lot of the Barracks and Establishments returned to the German Government, most of BFG, as it is now known, is centred around Gutersloh/Paderborn/Sennelager with a few units in Hohne and Celle. British Forces are scheduled to withdraw from Germany by 2020. This site is quite informative:-


www.bfgnet.de

Thanks Shelldrake for the update.

Yes, I can see that the British Forces in Germany are fast becoming an "endangered species" there, and I did appreciate that since 1989 there is absolutely no need for any deployment of our forces there. I have been out of touch with troop movements, but I have never lost touch with the country. I have been there many times since, and I shall visit Luneburg once again later this year . . . and the camp where I feel I "grew up", and remember the great times I had there!

I will have a quick shufti at the website you suggest although I'm not sure I understand the implications about Wainwright, Medicine Hat and Alberta, though?

Jock (David)

The Army do Battle Group Training in Wainwright and Medicine Hat, the Tanks, Guns etc are pre positioned there so that they don't have to ship their own from Germany/UK. My knowledge is a bit rusty now, maybe Pinky can enlarge?

Shelldrake wrote:

The Army do Battle Group Training in Wainwright and Medicine Hat, the Tanks, Guns etc are pre positioned there so that they don't have to ship their own from Germany/UK. My knowledge is a bit rusty now, maybe Pinky can enlarge?

Wainwright was 'closed' to the British army a number of years ago, Suffield has become more of an infantry training area, [ although they still have Tanks and other assorted armour] There are now several built up "villiage's" that are used extensivly during the Prairie Thunder exercises, there are currently rumours that the British will not renew the contract for use after 2015, looks like I will be out of a job. Ian.

Thanks for that info Ian, I did Pond Jump West in '79 at Wainwright. We had Towed 105mm Light Gun at the time, which we brought over from the UK, two at a time in a C130. Sorry to hear about the impending job loss but, looking at your age you might just fall lucky with redundancy, that's what happened with my MOD job, I was due to retire in the June and they made me redundant in the March - just right!

Wainwright Alberta, was originally a POW camp for WW 2. Hence the reason for all those towers (if some are still there) that are in line of sight of each other. There was a fella who lived across from the main gate who was a former POW. Came back after the war. Suffield was where experimentation took place for chemical war fare in WW 2. Also Wainwright claims to be the first place to cross breed buffalo and cattle ( cattlelo) but not true. It first happened in Stony Mountain Prison, by the first Warden of the prison a Mr. Bedson.

Bedson became the first warden of the new federal penitentiary in Stony Mountain on February 2, 1877.
Having had no training in penal matters, Bedson applied strict military discipline, tempered with common sense and a warm humanity towards all. He insisted that his charges have proper food, clothing, quarters, and medical care, and that they be given meaningful work to do – erecting or repairing buildings, gardening, tending livestock, or shoemaking. He also started a school for illiterate prisoners. His work and the condition of the prison and its inmates were consistently praised in the yearly reports of the federal inspector.
Bedson and his wife Jemima were renowned for the hospitality shown to all guests, from Governor General Lord Dufferand Lady Dufferin, who came to open the Stony Mountain Penitentiary in August 1877, to other official visitors, employees, and friends. At these times “Bedson was in his element for he liked people to come together for any kind of social event.” He was an avid sportsman and for his friends and visitors he set up a six-hole golf-course, a curling rink, a race-track, and a hunting club, as well as a private zoo where he kept a famous buffalo herd. In 1888, when he disposed of the herd, it numbered 110 head, including both thoroughbred and cow-buffalo breeds.

This was the herd that saved the bison for North America. Sold to an American the Yanks claimed they saved the bison.

Got off the subject there didn't I.

Just a slight veer, but that's acceptable at our age. Can't remember the towers but I do remember the Khaki Trail, Blue and Brown Trail etc - loved my little stint there.

Rolled a jeep in Jan. 77 at Rainbow junction. The CO of the 3 RCHA was my passenger. Winter roads, high center of gravity jeep and the chains weren't worth a pinch of coon sh-t.

Most of the training is now done in Poland where we have pre positioned equipment (like Wainwright and Medicine Hat in Alberta).

Not any more dear chap, we haven't trained in Poland now for a good few years and certainly no 'pre positioned equipment' which is all quite a shame really as I loved going to Poland and being on the train party from Germany with the Armour, the crate of beer always help with the long journey.

recymech wrote:

I loved going to Poland and being on the train party from Germany with the Armour, the crate of beer always help with the long journey.

Armour ?

Clearly not of my era but I love to hear about the movement of armoured regiments.

Which regiment Sir ?

With many of the Germany based (some no longer there) tank Regiment SDG's, QRH, RDG's etc etc.

recymech wrote:

Most of the training is now done in Poland where we have pre positioned equipment (like Wainwright and Medicine Hat in Alberta).

Not any more dear chap, we haven't trained in Poland now for a good few years and certainly no 'pre positioned equipment' which is all quite a shame really as I loved going to Poland and being on the train party from Germany with the Armour, the crate of beer always help with the long journey.

Shows you how much I know, Foxtrot Alpha! Do we still have the compulsary 30 min rest at Hannover Garbsen?

Hi Hardrations, It is a coincidence that your position is Winnipeg and the name Mr Bedson was quoted. My Great Grandfather George Bedson was hospital Sgt. at Fort Garry (now Winnipeg) in the Royal Canadian Rifles 1857. My Grandfather was born there and his Baptism Lines are signed by David Anderson, Lord Bishop of Ruperts Land !..Sorry to veer away from the thread... Cheers Al.

[/quote]
Shows you how much I know, Foxtrot Alpha! Do we still have the compulsary 30 min rest at Hannover Garbsen? [/quote]

Ah Hannover Garbsen, had a brew there only recently, Gutersloh ex 26 by any chance?

mortarman wrote:

Hi Hardrations, It is a coincidence that your position is Winnipeg and the name Mr Bedson was quoted. My Great Grandfather George Bedson was hospital Sgt. at Fort Garry (now Winnipeg) in the Royal Canadian Rifles 1857. My Grandfather was born there and his Baptism Lines are signed by David Anderson, Lord Bishop of Ruperts Land !..Sorry to veer away from the thread... Cheers Al.

Any chance he was related to Col. Bedson? Co. Bedson died in Ottawa he was in the process of going to the Klondike to be the Gold Commissioner during the gold rush there.

recymech wrote:

Shows you how much I know, Foxtrot Alpha! Do we still have the compulsary 30 min rest at Hannover Garbsen? [/quote]

Ah Hannover Garbsen, had a brew there only recently, Gutersloh ex 26 by any chance?[/quote]



Bit before then Recymech, 47 from81 - 86. Lived in the Flats in Avenwedde.

Hi Hardrations, It is extremely unlikely that they are related. George Bedson and family returned to Stafford,UK in 1870. George died in Stafford 1885 ! It is still a coincidence that place and name were the same !

Well take some credit any ways for a Bedson saving the North American Bison. It's one of my favourite meats. Nothing beats a bison steak or roast.

viva bfg, well for a couple of years.

"BAOR no more", could be included in the next Proclaimers song?

Begone BAOR?New march for the Scaleys