queens jubilee parade 1977

Ah! Senelager 1977, yes I was there for the Queens parade.
I remember it taking place during a spell of glorious weather and the first time many of us wore the then new lightweight combats.
I also remember having my wicked way with a young German lass in a park somewhere in Detmold around the same period.

This will soon have a page in its own right (within Events and Parades) on the main site.

Hope to have it up shortly, along with a separate one for Celle.

Also, I am looking for any other photo's of parades, etc. to add to the main site. I know there are some in various Locations pages (pointers please), and some of you must have some of your own in a form of fashion.

Paul.

Paul wrote:

This will soon have a page in its own right (within Events and Parades) on the main site.
Paul.

Now up on the main site.

Paul.

20th Armd Brigade formed up for a mounted parade,& were inspected by H.M. The Queen in 1965 ,at the windmill site sennelager training area.the 17/21 Lancers in the nearby athlone bks hosted a grat deal of the preparation .it was not as big as the later 1977 parade,the following regiments took part in the drive past,under the command of Brig; R.E.Ward DSO.MC.

1st RHA
3 rd carabiniers
THE ROYALS 1st dragoons
QRIH
17/21 Lancers
Royal Northumberland Fusiliers


in regards to thesilver jubelee parade or to give it its formal title

THE REVIEW OF THE ARMY SENNELAGER 7 JULY 1977:

I shall come back to that later as discussed with Paul

hoping this has been of help to you

Arbor.

arbor wrote:

20th Armd Brigade formed up for a mounted parade,& were inspected by H.M. The Queen in 1965 ,at the windmill site sennelager training area.the 17/21 Lancers in the nearby athlone bks hosted a grat deal of the preparation .it was not as big as the later 1977 parade,the following regiments took part in the drive past,under the command of Brig; R.E.Ward DSO.MC.

1st RHA
3 rd carabiniers
THE ROYALS 1st dragoons
QRIH
17/21 Lancers
Royal Northumberland Fusiliers


in regards to thesilver jubelee parade or to give it its formal title

THE REVIEW OF THE ARMY SENNELAGER 7 JULY 1977:

I shall come back to that later as discussed with Paul

hoping this has been of help to you

Arbor.

Now on the main site under Events and Parades.

Paul.

Locator wrote:

Hi Paul,

Somewhere in the loft I have one of the presentation porcelain pint mugs that were issued as a commemorative. If I can find it, would you like some pics?

Morris

Here you go Morris. Click on the image for a bigger picture. Used thumbnails as images are quite large at original size. Paul.

Gosh....When my mother was still alive, she collected British Coronation and Royal Commemorative mugs.

As I was born in 1953, my maternal grandmother sent flowers in Elizabeth II's mug. Mom figured, a few years later, she might add George VI since he was King when she was growing up, then realized she also lived under Edward VIII (later Duke of Windsor), and George V and it went from there.

At her death she had over 175 pieces, from Victoria's Jubilee (first one...silver?), every monarch's coronation since Victoria, plus variations, weddings, births, Royal Visits etc. She had also branched out into German commemorative mugs of the Kaiser (had a couple of those and one featuring Otto Bismarck as well). She never had this one, though -- she would have loved to have it!! Don't think she even knew it existed, actually as by 1977 we were back in Canada and lost touch with any connection to our time in Germany apart from Xmas cards with a German family my parents were friendly with.

I inherited all those but, sad to say, due to a series of dreadful events I no longer have them.

Andrew wrote:

We had a Queens silver jubilee parade at 16 Bn Bicester but what made this particular parade a bit special was the fact that HRH herself attended. We had two drill Sgts from Pirbright (Welsh Guards if memory serves) spend a couple of weeks putting the Battalion through the routine for the parade and it must be said, they were very good at what they did. No bawling or beasting, they just knew how to teach drill and when they had finished we were bloody good. I was pleased to be picked for the guard of honour even though this meant extra drill, but we were inspected by HRH herself (I didn't realise until then how short she was)

A question....since she is Queen, is "HRH" the proper designation? I thought it'd be "HM" or "ER" (Elizabeth Regina).

I've seen her several times (my parents were staunch Monarchists!) when she and Prince Philip visited Canada and, yes, she is a tiny woman. Good thing the Duke of Edinburgh always had to walk behind her as he would dwarf her LOL

Andrew wrote:

We were told the Battalion would be awarded five Jubilee medals (for a Battalion of 600!) I have no idea if this was the case or not. I certainly didn't recieve one, and I don't know anyone else who did.

In later years the silver jubilee medal was (in my experience) seen as something of a joke. I did once or twice see it on officers chests while on parade but fortunately for them, at a glance most people couldn't identify it.

Why was it seen as a joke? Because it wasn't a campaign medal? I believe my dad had a Jubilee medal, although I can't swear to it, along with his service medal(s) and a couple of others...sadly, I don't now remember what they were for! He spent 6 months in Egypt with the UN too and I believe he got one for that. He didn't have lots, maybe 4 or 5.

Stephen Lock wrote:

Andrew wrote:

We were told the Battalion would be awarded five Jubilee medals (for a Battalion of 600!) I have no idea if this was the case or not. I certainly didn't recieve one, and I don't know anyone else who did.

In later years the silver jubilee medal was (in my experience) seen as something of a joke. I did once or twice see it on officers chests while on parade but fortunately for them, at a glance most people couldn't identify it.

Why was it seen as a joke? Because it wasn't a campaign medal? I believe my dad had a Jubilee medal, although I can't swear to it, along with his service medal(s) and a couple of others...sadly, I don't now remember what they were for! He spent 6 months in Egypt with the UN too and I believe he got one for that. He didn't have lots, maybe 4 or 5.

It was and still is seen as a joke because it was such a limited issue to the CO, RSM etc and the token Junior Rank in some cases, and a slap in the face for many soldiers who gave years of faithful service to the crown.

I was awarded the Queens Golden Jubilee Medal in 2002 as I was still serving in the Cadet Forces as a Adult Officer at the time, yet did not recieve the Silver Jubilee Medal in 1977 as a Regular Soldier!

The entitlement should be backdated to anyone serving 2 years in the Colours or TA in 1977 even if you have to pay for it, not just the chosen few.

I was in Brunei at the time of the Jubilee and I cannot remember if anyone out there received the Jubille Medal, if they did, it was probably only the C.O. of the Gurkha Bn that was there.

Whether any Gurkha Officers or soldiers received it, I do not know. There was a feeling, even out there, that more should have received the medal.

Apparently there were 30,000 medals produced, for award to selected
Military and Civilian personnel. I wonder where the bulk of them went

Paul.

It is also said that out of the 30,000, nearly 8,400 were for Australia and New Zealand, and there was a seperate issue of 30,000 for Canada.

There is an article in Wiki about the medal, and I seem to remember seeing those details somewhere else - where, I cannot think at the moment.

Paul.

Some 366,000 Golden Jubilee medals were issued in the UK, compared to the approximately 30,000 1977 Silver Jubilee medals.

The following article makes interesting reading:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6212949.stm

So it was down to COST!

The critera for the GJM was:

The Golden Jubilee 2002 medal will be issued to the following personnel:

All personnel who are in paid effective military service with the Royal Navy, Royal Marines, Army and Royal Air Force on 6 February 2002, who have completed 5 calendar years service and were enlisted on or before 7 February 1997.

All personnel who are in effective military service with the Volunteer Reserve Forces on 6 February 2002, completed five annual bounty earning training years and were enlisted on or before 7 February 1997. One of the bounty years must have been the year 2001-2002.

A member of the Regular Reserves who is in military service on 6 February 2002 become eligible if their aggregated Regular and Voluntary service amounts to the 5 year qualification period.

Any member of the Military Provost Guard Service whose MPGS paid service equates to the 5 year qualifying period.

Contracted Royal Fleet Auxiliary personnel in service on 6 February 2002 who have completed the 5 years qualifying period.

Cadet Officers and Cadet Adult Instructors with a total of 5 training years service, providing the service period includes 6 February 2002 and they are part of an established post. The person must have started on or before 7 February 1997 and the year 2001-2002 must be part of the service period.

A member of the 'front line' emergency services, accessed via the telephone number 999, who have completed a minimum of 5 years reckonable service on 6 February 2002. The emergency services include the Police, Fire and Ambulance Services, the Coastguard, Royal National Lifeboat Institution and Mountain Rescue services.

Members of the Royal Family [which is why Prince William & Harry wear it]

Members of the Royal Household depending on status

Foreign Dignitaries on the advice of the Foreign & Commonwealth Office

[Combination service of 5 years was acceptable - i.e. Moving from one group to another with little or no break in service]

Reminds me of when the Centenial Meadal for Canada came out. It was being given out left and right, that apparantly some Legions were using it as a bingo prize.

And yes I am back from my trip over to the UK. All went well.

Hard rats-I'm going next week. How was the Union Jack club?

Mike_2817 wrote:

Stephen Lock wrote:

Andrew wrote:

We were told the Battalion would be awarded five Jubilee medals (for a Battalion of 600!) I have no idea if this was the case or not. I certainly didn't recieve one, and I don't know anyone else who did.

In later years the silver jubilee medal was (in my experience) seen as something of a joke. I did once or twice see it on officers chests while on parade but fortunately for them, at a glance most people couldn't identify it.

Why was it seen as a joke? Because it wasn't a campaign medal? I believe my dad had a Jubilee medal, although I can't swear to it, along with his service medal(s) and a couple of others...sadly, I don't now remember what they were for! He spent 6 months in Egypt with the UN too and I believe he got one for that. He didn't have lots, maybe 4 or 5.

It was and still is seen as a joke because it was such a limited issue to the CO, RSM etc and the token Junior Rank in some cases, and a slap in the face for many soldiers who gave years of faithful service to the crown.

I was awarded the Queens Golden Jubilee Medal in 2002 as I was still serving in the Cadet Forces as a Adult Officer at the time, yet did not recieve the Silver Jubilee Medal in 1977 as a Regular Soldier!

The entitlement should be backdated to anyone serving 2 years in the Colours or TA in 1977 even if you have to pay for it, not just the chosen few.

That jogs my memory...thanks.

I now seem to recall something similar, if not the same situation, occurring with the Canadian DND re Silver Jubilee.

Sadly, I am unable to confirm what medals my dad had as all that sort of thing, including nicely framed medals belonging to my paternal grandfather who was also Army (British, stationed in India as a young man, product of the Raj, born in Hyderbadsihn), are amongst a slew of possessions I have lost due to some unfortunate circumstances 3 years ago.

When my dad received his service medal...CD?...he was to have been given it on parade. Instead, his CO reached into his desk drawer and said something along the lines of "This is yours...you might want it..." and pushed it across the desk to my dad. Dad was a military man through and through and, for him, one did things a certain way. He was quite put out by this treatment -- hurt, actually -- and while he was proud of the medal in some ways, it niggled him he wasn't presented it in the proper fashion, in front of his peers.

Chemist wrote:

Hard rats-I'm going next week. How was the Union Jack club?

Well worth the stay. Handy to many locations by walking and of course there is Waterloo station for the tube. The meals aren't bad, but most of the staff are Polish so English must be spoken carefuly. Be sure to have ID for the security on the door, proving your military past. They have a good bar/club room. I'm sure you'll enjoy. Let me know what you think.

Hey Steph. Before the CD became an automatic issue, it had to be requested. It was known in the Army as the RCAF medal as that's all most of them sported. When it went on line, I well remember seeing a stack of them on the Sqn. Sgt. Mjrs. desk. We were all herded into the conference room ( HQ's & Sigs 4 CMBG Lahr) had'em passed out, group picture taken. Best medals parade I've been on. Better yet in the Van Doo's at the same time, they had a battalion parade at the Lahr airfield to give'em out. When a Cpl Poitras was called forward to get his 10 year bar to his CD, he answered, " I can't sir", the C.O. says, " Why not", the Cpl answered , " I don't have a C.D. sir". My father in law in my first marriage refused his on retiring. His C.O. gave him a choice get it here in his office or get it on parade with the RCR in London where he was retiring. He took it in the office. My 10 bar came in the mail. Another good medals parade in my book. The best/worst medals parade I saw, was in 1981 at CFB Winnipeg Airfield. All the base was on parade, and didn't know the reason. The Base Commander has this retired fella in civies come out, gives him his 10 bar. Needless to say the fella boggered off right quick. Can't say I blame him.Yes, that's the reason for the parade. RCAF they just love having parades. Silly clots.

Well, perhaps if my dad had known all this he wouldn't have been so put out. So it was the CD? Good, wasn't sure about that part.

I know dad didn't put in a request for it, that's for sure. It wouldn't be like him at all. The only thing he ever put in a request for was officer training, which was denied as he only had grade 10 education. More fool they as he would have been a damn fine officer, in my opinion. Intelligent, had come up through the ranks (as opposed to landing a commission straight out of university like so many snotty nosed little Captains and Lieutenants who seemed barely old enough to shave, let alone command), was sensitive but no push over, understood the Army inside and out (good, bad, and indifferent) and still loved it. the Army was his life, period. He retired as a WO. He should have been at least a CWO if not a Major.

I got a chuckle out of the Cpl. Poitras story....a good example of the Army's left hand having no idea what the right hand is doing LOL

Stephen, Warrant Officers & Senior Ranks are the backbone of any army.

Chemist wrote:

Hard rats-I'm going next week. How was the Union Jack club?

I normally stay at the 'Victory Services Club' at Marble Arch, but you have to be a member to stay, unlike the UJC where proof of service will get you a bed.

[quote="Mike_2817"]

Chemist wrote:

Hard rats-I'm going next week. How was the Union Jack club?

I normally stay at the 'Victory Services Club' at Marble Arch, but you have to be a member to stay, unlike the UJC where proof of service will get you a bed.[/quote

Heard about the Victory Club and that's it's a good place to put up at. If you're a member of the U.J. prices are lower to for a room.

Mike_2817 wrote:

Stephen, Warrant Officers & Senior Ranks are the backbone of any army.

I agree...in fact, I would expand that and include Sergeants. Junior officers? Wellllll..... Okay, okay....useless as tits on a bull, by and large.

The ones who were older and junior officers were usually okay, but as I metioned in the earlier post, those who got put through university by the army and then paid back with 3 or 4 years in the Army with a commission....blah....

Senior Ranks....like Majors and up? If they came up through the ranks, my impression was they were usually on the ball and pretty okay. If they had walked in with a commission and went from there, then 9 times out of 10 they were just older twits....

Of course, there are exceptions and every soldier has stories about some great Captain or Lieutenant he served under or a Major or Colonel etc. Same with my dad.

My mother had had a cousin in the Lord Strathcona's, a junior officer whose father retired as a Lt.-Col. (complete with always wearing a blazer with regimental crest and a great bushy white moustache). A total absolute twit.

Of course, being "family" this twit was over at our house once in a while for dinner...this was when we were in MQs in Canada. It got a bit weird because he was also dad's superior, although dad didn't work under him.

The rule soon became No Army Talk because the cousin had no idea what the hell he was talking about, my dad had "issues" with how he conducted himself as an officer and some of the decisions he'd make (and couldn't say anything). Eventually, the cousin chose to not associate as he didn't care for my dad either.

Thing is, my great uncle, the retired Lt.-Col., didn't have a hell of a lot of use for his snot-nosed son either!! And that is a quote :-) He far preferred my dad; a soldier's soldier (and that's also a quote).

Sergeants, WOs, MWOs and CWOs are like middle management -- close enough to the rank and file to 'get it' and far enough up the ladder to do something constructive with that.

As far as I know, no discounts are given to UJ members at the VSC and you must be a registered VSC member to stay. Of the two I prefer the VSC even if the UJ is a bit cheeper.

Stephen Lock wrote:

Mike_2817 wrote:

Stephen, Warrant Officers & Senior Ranks are the backbone of any army.

I agree...in fact, I would expand that and include Sergeants. Junior officers? Wellllll..... Okay, okay....useless as tits on a bull, by and large.

..........

Senior Ranks....like Majors and up? If they came up through the ranks, my impression was they were usually on the ball and pretty okay. If they had walked in with a commission and went from there, then 9 times out of 10 they were just older twits.....

Bit of a misunderstanding here:

'Warrant Officers' are WO Class II & I

'Senior Ranks' in the British Army means Sergeants & Staff Sergeants,

'Junior Ranks' being Privates, Lance Corporals & Corporals.

'Junior Officers' are Second Lutenants (subbys) to Captain

Captains are sometimes known as 'Command Officers' and hold appointments such as Adjutant
[In the British Army this is where most ex-ranker 'Late Engagment' Officers start after short training as a subby]

'Field Officers' are Major to Lt Colonel

Full Colonels and above are 'Staff Officers'

Brigader and above are also 'Generals'

Quote :

Full Colonels and above are 'Staff Officers'

Not strictly true.

Captains and above can hold staff officer appointments

In the Canadian Army. Major and above is all about politics.

There was once a tongue in cheek article in the Sentinel about Capts. being the last rank of responsibility with enlisted personnel. And that Majors and above should be left to do their politicing and Capts who wanted to remain in rank and work with the troops be given the pay and responsibility of command positions, ei: Company-Capt, Battalion-Capt, Brigade-Capt.