Hannover, London - Ediburgh Barracks

Hello Ritter,

A belated welcome to the site. Your information on Hanover is very good. I served with 3 soldiers at various times who did time in Hanover. It was interesting to hear of their experiences. My self in Germany as a young Signalman in 64 - 69 and then again in 71-74. I see that your former RCA. My self a Herbie Helper on 3 seperate postings.

Welcome to our family, Ritter. Interesting about your trip across the pond in the old RMS Scythia. We came across in her in November 1957 and it was about on par with your trip by sound of it.

As a matter of trivia, the Scythia was reportedly the ship that brought the first load of legal whiskey into New York following the lifting of prohibition. We travelled in good company!

Hardrations,
Thanks for your welcome to the site and your kind remarks. I hope that I will be able to pass along some further observations about my service in Hannover in 52. Your service throughout the world is very impressive. CSF Alert in your list; is that the Alert which is Canada's most northerly base in the Arctic? Our PM was there not too long ago inspecting a platoon of Inuit (not Eskimos; that's not politically correct except for the Edmonton Eskimos). Harper was flogging the Canadian flag and our sovereignty. It's a hard place to get to; my son served with the Engineers in Winnipeg and was posted to Alert; he went from Winnipeg to Montreal; then to Thule, Greenland; and then on to Alert, Hercules all the way with a bulldozer. He was responsible for improving or building a better road from the airfield to the barracks. He said that he had to study how the Russians were dealing with the permafrost. Yes, spent 17 years in the RCA (M) 17pdrs. 25 pdrs, and 105mm howitzers, all towed. BTW, are you going to be a Winnipeg Jets fan in the NHL?
Hope to touch base again,
Bob
PS Can you help me host an image(picture) to the forum? Have tried a number of times; no luck.

Recce 83,
Thanks for your welcome to the site. It's interesting that you also sailed on the Scythia; I think that she was scrapped in 1958. After sailing on her , I made a point of studying her history; i will add your anecdote about the whiskey she brought into New York after prohibition was repealed. Will tell you some more interesting details about her in my next post to the forum.
Nice to hear from you
Bob

ritter wrote:

Can you help me host an image(picture) to the forum? Have tried a number of times; no luck.

Bob

I also find the forum hosting system difficult so follow this go to

http://photobucket.com/

Open an account create an album then upload and save then highlight the image and move your mouse to HTML code then past into your post



One of my favourites here on the Cuxhaven Peninsular…Haxe!

Hope this helps and best regards
Steve

It looks revolting Steve..What is it?

it looks like what here in the norteast we call a pigs knuckle,very tasty.

Gordon
dandc is correct the lower part of the pigs leg and tastes just great...we have a van once a week doing these and chicken on the spit...sorry to change the thread!
Cheers
Steve

Hello All,
2nd installment- A Tale of Two Ships, For one it was the luckiest of times, for the other it was the worst of times.
A holiday like atmosphere prevailed on board as the RMS Scythia slowly moved away from the pier at Wolfe's Cove, Quebec City into mid channel for the outbound journey on the St. Lawrence River. It was a cloudless day with bright sunshine and shirtsleeve temperatures. However, the next morning,"there was a grey mist on the sea's face and a grey dawn breaking." Then gradually we were enveloped by an impenetrable fog bank of the kind that are so much feared in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. Our ship slowed noticeably and the silence in the fog was only punctuated by the mournful blasts of the ship's fog horn. Suddenly there was a faint echo of another fog horn; it was barely audible. Then without any warning the Scythia shuddered ever so slightly and only momentarily. By the time that we got topside it was apparent that we had struck something or that something had struck us. No other ship was visible, only debris floating on the surface of the calm water. When two lifeboats were lowered with only crewmen in them it became clear that there had been a collision. We learned later that the Scythia had collided with another ship slicing through the stern of the ship severing its rudder and screw; the stern section sank along with three crew members but miraculously the forward part of the ship remained afloat but none of this had been seen by any passengers. More information identified the stricken ship as the SS Wabana, a 7200 ton collier from Newfoundland making its way up river. Our Captain gravely announced that the Scythia would be safely returning to Quebec City for an inspection of its damage and for repairs. It subsequently was learned that the Scythia's prow or stem had been badly twisted to the starboard side and that a large jagged hole 8 x 10 feet had been punched into the port side just below the anchor slot
A number of years after the Scythia's collision, I came across an newspaper article about the sinking of a ship in the St. Lawrence with almost identical circumstances to our own close encounter. The story was about the ill-fated and long forgotten Empress of Ireland which was going outbound on the St. Lawrence from Quebec City to Liverpool. The Empress was rammed amid ship between her two funnels by the SS Norstadt, a Norwegian collier on 29 May 1914 in heavy fog off Pointe au Pere , Rimouskie, Quebec on the south shore of the St. Lawrence. The ship which was carrying 1477 passengers and crew sank in exactly 14 minutes at a depth of 40 metres with the loss of 1,012 lives. For those who are interested in this compelling story, Google
the URL, " Empress of Ireland " which provides a very interesting account with pictures of Canada's greatest maritime disaster.
Fortunately for the passengers of the Scythia and by the Grace of God, the Scythia had again fulfilled its destiny as a lucky ship. It had previously survived two collisions on convoy duty in WW2, one collision with a ship called the Wychwood. Then on 23 Nov 1943, the Scythia was hit by an aerial torpedo just outside the harbor in Algiers. It managed to get into its berth before it sank with the loss of only 5 of its complement of 4300. It was pumped out, patched, and taken to New York for repairs. For anyone wanting to read more about the lucky Scythia, Google,"Rhode Island Paqueboat Mail -SS Scythia Cunard Steamship Line."
Look for my next installment, The Rest of the Journey.
Bob

Hi Steve,
Thanks for your advice on how to proceed with hosting an image on a forum. Yes, i always seemed to bog down at the point where I was to subscribe to or open an account. I will try to follow your directions and hopefully nail it.
That's a fantastic dish and the colour is great. What is Haxe?
Thanks for your help
Bob

Cunard White Star liner

Hello Baor surfers,
Sorry about the missing picture of the RMS Scythia in my last message. I thought I finally got it but I now must call on Paul Smith, administrator, for his help in hosting an image in this forum.
This Installment- The Rest of the long journey to Hannover
The wounded Scythia returned to Wolfe's Cove, Quebec City for below water inspections and a patch to her bow. Three great days were spent aboard ship interrupted only by our forays to the renowned Boardwalk at the Chateau Frontenac, the most prolific site in Quebec to Cherchez la femme. Following the ship inspections and repairs we again left port for the crossing. During the journey down the St. Lawrence we passed the seriously crippled SS Wabana minus her stern as she was being towed very slowly up river by the tug Rocky River. Crossing the Atlantic took 8 days and according to the ship's log which is posted daily we had only two days of what the log described as rough weather. Yes, we had noticed that the dishes were sliding off the rimmed tables and crashing to the floor in the dining room. After a brief stop at Le Havre we proceeded to Southampton where we made a number of very passionate goodbyes before boarding the boat train for London. We were informed by our conducting officer that we had missed our connection to the continent, too bad LOL. Arriving in London, we were billeted at the Googe St. Deep Shelter for three days. It was a first visit to the city for all members of our draft and we wasted no time in seeing as much as we could. Sadly we left to catch the ferry that would take us from Harwich to the Hoek van Holland. Can not remember the name of the ferry. For the final leg of our trip we left the Hoek by train for Hannover.
Next installment- What Hannover looked like in 1952 shocked all of us.

4th Installment- Hannover in 1952
The last leg of our long journey was completed when our train arrived at the Hauptbahnhof in Hannover ca 22 Jun 1952 where military transport was waiting our arrival. As we walked out of the Central Station we were confronted by the large equestrian statue of Ernst August, Koenig von Hannover. It was an impressive monument presiding over Ernst August Platz. None of us had ever heard of the king with the disfiguring scar on the right side of his face; many months later while reviewing some photographs of Hannover I made a point of researching this monarch. Ernst August was one of the sons of George 111, the mad king of the United Kingdom and Hannover known as the dual monarchy. Ernst had been born at Buckingham Palace and later became a member of the House of Lords in Britain. He was a contender as the future King of England but his niece, Victoria, pushed him aside when she was crowned Queen Victoria.
Ernst August Platz was one of the fashionable meeting places where the younger set congregated to be seen. The custom was to gather under the tail of the King's horse mounted high on a plinth. Eventually this site was referred to by a more obscene name which will be explained later. As our transport left the Hauptbahnhof it became evident to us that Hannover was a kaleidoscope of unbelievable destruction and rebirth. The central area of the city had been rebuilt with broad open avenues. The Rathaus, Opernhaus, Europahaus and a few other important buildings had been erected as majestic structures. However, as we drove further out of the central area we witnessed the magnitude of the devastation that overwhelmed Hannover. All of the streets had been cleared and they resembled the alleys of a maize through mountains of rubble which completely filled entire city blocks. The people in the city were living in the basements where they had made rudimentary repairs with nothing above the basement level. It must have been an existence of great despair mixed with irrepressible hope and there were signs that Hannover would rise again from its ashes like the legendary phoenix.
Look for the next segment about the Hannover barracks.
Ritter

ritter wrote:

Hello Baor surfers,
Sorry about the missing picture of the RMS Scythia in my last message. I thought I finally got it but I now must call on Paul Smith, administrator, for his help in hosting an image in this forum.
This Installment- The Rest of the long journey to Hannover
The wounded Scythia returned to Wolfe's Cove, Quebec City for below water inspections and a patch to her bow. Three great days were spent aboard ship interrupted only by our forays to the renowned Boardwalk at the Chateau Frontenac, the most prolific site in Quebec to Cherchez la femme. Following the ship inspections and repairs we again left port for the crossing. During the journey down the St. Lawrence we passed the seriously crippled SS Wabana minus her stern as she was being towed very slowly up river by the tug Rocky River. Crossing the Atlantic took 8 days and according to the ship's log which is posted daily we had only two days of what the log described as rough weather. Yes, we had noticed that the dishes were sliding off the rimmed tables and crashing to the floor in the dining room. After a brief stop at Le Havre we proceeded to Southampton where we made a number of very passionate goodbyes before boarding the boat train for London. We were informed by our conducting officer that we had missed our connection to the continent, too bad LOL. Arriving in London, we were billeted at the Googe St. Deep Shelter for three days. It was a first visit to the city for all members of our draft and we wasted no time in seeing as much as we could. Sadly we left to catch the ferry that would take us from Harwich to the Hoek van Holland. Can not remember the name of the ferry. For the final leg of our trip we left the Hoek by train for Hannover.
Next installment- What Hannover looked like in 1952 shocked all of us.

Hi Bob
Paul Smith seems to be no longer with us JPW knows I am an editor and has sent to me so here goes
Regards
Steve

ritter wrote:

4th Installment- Hannover in 1952
The last leg of our long journey was completed when our train arrived at the Hauptbahnhof in Hannover ca 22 Jun 1952 where military transport was waiting our arrival. As we walked out of the Central Station we were confronted by the large equestrian statue of Ernst August, Koenig von Hannover. It was an impressive monument presiding over Ernst August Platz. None of us had ever heard of the king with the disfiguring scar on the right side of his face; many months later while reviewing some photographs of Hannover I made a point of researching this monarch. Ernst August was one of the sons of George 111, the mad king of the United Kingdom and Hannover known as the dual monarchy. Ernst had been born at Buckingham Palace and later became a member of the House of Lords in Britain. He was a contender as the future King of England but his niece, Victoria, pushed him aside when she was crowned Queen Victoria.
Ernst August Platz was one of the fashionable meeting places where the younger set congregated to be seen. The custom was to gather under the tail of the King's horse mounted high on a plinth. Eventually this site was referred to by a more obscene name which will be explained later. As our transport left the Hauptbahnhof it became evident to us that Hannover was a kaleidoscope of unbelievable destruction and rebirth. The central area of the city had been rebuilt with broad open avenues. The Rathaus, Opernhaus, Europahaus and a few other important buildings had been erected as majestic structures. However, as we drove further out of the central area we witnessed the magnitude of the devastation that overwhelmed Hannover. All of the streets had been cleared and they resembled the alleys of a maize through mountains of rubble which completely filled entire city blocks. The people in the city were living in the basements where they had made rudimentary repairs with nothing above the basement level. It must have been an existence of great despair mixed with irrepressible hope and there were signs that Hannover would rise again from its ashes like the legendary phoenix.
Look for the next segment about the Hannover barracks.
Ritter

Here goes again

Hi Steve,

Am following your reports with interest, and looking forward to description of the barracks

I arrived in Hannover February 1951, and am sure the same transit camp; which then became the Canadian camp in 1952

One thing that impressed us was the quality shops that had been repaired, well lit at night and displaying expensive goods; doubt the average German could afford; a big difference from London shops at that time

I remember sort of route march into very flat country; must have been to the east of the camp as I dont remember seeing the autobahn. We stopped and examined a treeless copse; which in 1945 had been heavily shelled; not much chance of getting out of there alive.

Regards
Tony [Royal Engineers]
Australia

G'day Tony
To be fair the reports are from Bob Ritter all I did was post the images for him would be interest in RE unit detail for your era
Regards
Steve
http://royalengineersbaor.blogspot.com/

steve wrote:

G'day Tony
To be fair the reports are from Bob Ritter all I did was post the images for him would be interest in RE unit detail for your era
Regards
Steve
http://royalengineersbaor.blogspot.com/

Hi Steve,

I am interested to know more about these barracks; as I remember little and was only there about 1 week

I still dont know why I was not posted direct to a RE BAOR unit in 1951; instead was sent to the transit camp in Hannover.
The only thing I can think of is that I was destined for Berlin, [the Berlin train guard operated from this camp]; then for some reason after about 1 week was posted to 40 Field Sqn at Osnabruck.
Guess Osnabruck was better than Berlin in those days?

All a long way in the past now, but great days for 18 year olds; and gave me an extra start in life

Any more Osnabruck RE's out there

Cheers
Tony

Hello surfers, with special attention of Tony,
This installment- Hannover Barracks - Jun 1952
As our transport left the central area of Hannover, to the best of my recollection, we followed Podbielskistrasse for a considerable distance. It appeared to be a main thorough fare as there was streetcar service to the base and beyond. As our transport approached the main gate we saw the large sign, "HQ, 27Cdn Inf Bde Gp" and our uniform reaction was, " Hey, we're here!" There was even a welcoming committee, a section of aggressive and loud hookers who had escaped being chased away by the police. More about that social problem in a future installment. As we entered the main gate we were stopped at the guardhouse by the guard detail.
We were told that these barracks had served as a transit and training camp for officers before and during WW2. The base was surrounded by steel post fencing and there was a large parade square in the centre. There were barrack blocks on two of the longer sides of the parade square, comprised of six individual buildings. Across the parade square there were more barracks but they were not all habitable, One building was severely damaged; it appeared that a bomb may have landed on the parade square with the full force of the blast taking out the centre structure of the concrete barrack. The buildings on this side housed the guardhouse, Brigade HG, and possibly the Brigade Service Detention Barracks (No 27 SDB) . The six barrack blocks comprised London and Edinburgh barracks housing the two infantry battalions i.e. 1st Cdn Rifle Bn and 1st Cdn Infantry Bn. The structure of these buildings was very impressive, not at all like the ubiquitous "H" huts (framed wood, tar paper insulation, and asbestos shingle siding) which one saw and still sees at Canadian bases.
These are my recollections after 60 years and I stand to be corrected.
Our transport took us to Edinburgh barracks home of Ist Cdn Rifle Bn where our entire draft (ca 8 subalterns) were conducted to BN HQ for our postings.
Hopefully my three photographs, courtesy of Steve, will appear later in this forum.
Ist picture- HQ with three ( anonymous) subalterns from Rifle Bn.
2nd Picture- Changing of the guard with barrack blocks in the distance.
3rd Picture - Damaged barrack block
Look for further installments to come on postings, clothing, weapons, exercises, social
life, etc.
Bob Ritter

ritter wrote:

Hardrations,
Thanks for your welcome to the site and your kind remarks. I hope that I will be able to pass along some further observations about my service in Hannover in 52. Your service throughout the world is very impressive. CSF Alert in your list; is that the Alert which is Canada's most northerly base in the Arctic? Our PM was there not too long ago inspecting a platoon of Inuit (not Eskimos; that's not politically correct except for the Edmonton Eskimos). Harper was flogging the Canadian flag and our sovereignty. It's a hard place to get to; my son served with the Engineers in Winnipeg and was posted to Alert; he went from Winnipeg to Montreal; then to Thule, Greenland; and then on to Alert, Hercules all the way with a bulldozer. He was responsible for improving or building a better road from the airfield to the barracks. He said that he had to study how the Russians were dealing with the permafrost. Yes, spent 17 years in the RCA (M) 17pdrs. 25 pdrs, and 105mm howitzers, all towed. BTW, are you going to be a Winnipeg Jets fan in the NHL?
Hope to touch base again,
Bob
PS Can you help me host an image(picture) to the forum? Have tried a number of times; no luck.

Hi Ritter,

My apologies for not answering sooner. I forgot to mark this site so was missing out on your postings. I see you have your pictures in hand. So won't bother you. Yes I did 6 months in CFS Alert May/Nov 1980. I was the baker for my full 6 months. ( I remustered from RC Sigs). One of my best postings in my book. They must have flown the Inuit up for the parade, as they are south of Alert. We had them flown up for G.D.'s when I was there. Now only about 55 personel as it's mostly automated. Nothing like baking for 350 people in the summer, as they would send RCE personel up for contstruction, etc. Called short timers by us 6 month persone. I was also there when they first started to post females there. As I was in Egypt to when females were first posted there to. Interesting in both cases. I think there is a story in there some where.

PS: Did you know or remember a Sgt S.G. Wilt when in Hanover. He was a very young acting/TSM or BSM there. Was RSM 3 RCHA and CWO Canadian Forces Europe in the mid 70's?

Bob

Thank you for another fascinating installment of Hannover life with 27 CIB, look forward to the next chapter

Incidentally do you recall a Stonehenge Barracks in the early days of this site a contributor suggested the Canadian RCASC Transport Company was based there?

Hello Peter,
Thanks for following my monologues on my Hannover posting. I don't recall hearing anything about the Stonehenge Barracks or the RCASC Transport Coy during my service in Hannover in 1952. I haven't forgotten your question about the RHLI whereabouts in May 1945. Semper Paratus has still not arrived here via inter library loan. However, you may be interested in the following information which I ran across in my review of the Bibliography in Maloney's Book, War Without Battles:
" Dragoons: The Centennial History of the Royal Canadian Dragoons Ottawa1883-1983
Greenhous, Brerreton, Guild of the RCD's 1983 1SBNO-9691281-0-A"
Let me know if you are interested and I will order the book.
Regards,
Bob

Hello Hard rations,
Thanks for your response to my question about your service in Alert, Canada's most northerly base. Six months is a long posting in that hostile climate. My son would have been a "short timer" there with the CE. He liked the posting. The women who are now posted there must all look pretty good after a week or less.LOL Perhaps its now a treatment resort for depressed women in the military who feel that they are no longer beautiful. The furtherest North I have been was to Moosonee on James Bay which is not very far north. One is still in Ontario. There was hardly any food in the grocery store; everyone seemed to be eating junk food. My wife and I took the Polar Bear Express which stays for 4 hours before returning. After 4 hours we felt like we had been there a week.
Yes, I saw on the news that a platoon of Inuit or 1st Nation was flown in for Harper's visit. I don't recall meeting or hearing about Sgt Wilt while I was serving with the RHLI in Hannover in 52.
Nice to hear from you.
Bob

Hi Bob,

Mooseonee.... Interesting, my brother-in-law was posted there with the OPP Det. The interesting tales were told by my sister who was a teachers aid. My favourite was of the young native lad who called a flock of geese directly down to the school yard during recess, they realized at the last moment they were being conned.

PS: How's this? Getting from Hanover to CFS Alert to Mooseonee?

Hello again Hardrations,
Some further thoughts about our 4 hour stay in Moosonee. Your response resonated with my memories of the place. One can only get there by rail or float plane and why one would want to do either I'm not sure. Your OPP brother-in-law must have done something awful to get posted there. No! Sorry, I finally get it; he's a hunter and fisherman and your sister must have been a saint to go there with him. No cars there, I think that everything is done by ATV's, boats, and snowmobiles; policing is 90% domestic disputes which is dangerous where the natives all have guns and know how to use them. Then throw drunkenness into the mix and you have a deadly cocktail.
The coaches were comprised largely of Sr citizens most of whom were 1/2 cut by the time we arrived there. When the train stopped, they all rushed down to the Bay like leemings to the sea where the natives (Cree Indian tribe)were waiting for them in a flotilla of large canoes with outboards with no life jackets venturing out into the Bay in rough tidal water to go over to Moose factory, a nearby island where the Hudson Bay Company had built a fur trading fort. Instead, my wife and I wisely opted to visit Moosonee Northern Lights Secondary School which also served as the community rec centre. We were very impressed with the facility which was far better equipped than the secondary school in SW Ontario where I had been a principal.
Have you ever taken the train from Winnipeg to Churchill on Hudson's Bay to see the polar bears? We always wanted to do that but time ran out on us.
How's that for stretching out the string-Hannover, Alert, Moosonee and Churchill, MAN?
Bob