9/12th Lancers and Fox

G'day all
Iam from Australia and now own a Fox CVR W . I would like to speak to anyone here who served with the 9/12th or other reece unit during the 1980's. Iam putting together a display so that the folks "down under" can get an appreciation of what happened over there!
Thanks in advance to all!
Cheers
Troy Walker

Will be interested to read more informed answers to this query

First reaction we are talking about the BAOR based Herford and Wolfenbuttel Regiments and the UK Omagh and Windsor equivalents plus the two TA Reinforcements (Royal Yeomanry and Queens Own Yeomanry)

But, were the BAOR based Regiments not equipted with Scorpion (CVR(T) variants with the wheeled Fox versions kept in the UK?

If I am wrong Jim and Alan can clear the Duty Staff Officers roster and I will retire hurt to the HQ Bunk till released by other more informed contributors. This one is for you dandc?

Peter,
I may be wrong but I believe we used CVR(W) in Omagh. Any tracked vehs were politically sensitive, all called 'Tanks'. 9/12 could have been a resident unit in Omagh and this would reflect as the owning unit in the vehicle docs. Windsor and BAOR Units had CVR(T). The TA, as you correctly state, had CVR(W). This info is based upon knowledge gained when, at one time, my war role was BEME Corps Border Surveillence Force under command of Comd Armd, 1 Br Corps. We only had one Ex in my time in which all Reg and TA recce units deployed.
Bob

G'day fellas
Iam a day in front so I can't get to talk much! I have a strong interest in the 9/12th Lancers, a mate of mine is in them over there and I would like to do something along BAOR and involve my Fox CVR W.
I have photos of the Fox both in NI and Germany, but would like to find out more so that I can give the correct impression, the little day to day things that you as soldiers went through! I think there couldx be a book in all the stories you fellas have got LOL!
For instance was the 7th Div Rat worn during the 80's?
My email address for those that want to talk direct to me is nightshepherd@netspace.net.au

Cheers
Troy
PS I served as a reserve ( TA) during the early 1980's..transport

Bob

Thanks for supporting my thoughts about the basic deployment of the CVR series vehicles (I believe the only reason the wheeled version was developed was to counter the politically sensitive use of tracked vehicles (tanks) in COIN or IS situations).

Troy
Another link off this site indicates the 9th/12th were in Omagh in the late 70s and would definitely used Fox. Sadly vehicle camouflage would have been minimalist drab all over olive green with unit TAC signs limited to a small white figures and no emblems

The Red Desert Rat remains the emblem for 7 Armoured Brigade and is now more widely seen, your mate with the Regiment based in Hohne probably wears it as a shoulder flash on his combat jacket.

Thanks fellas this is really great information and I appreciate it! I can't seem to download pictures here so I am going to give you my home site so you can see pics of me and the Fox

http://www.livinghistoryworldwide.com/profile/TroyWalker

Just curious too gents, but what was taken out into the field....did you take magazines ( like home and garden ??) etc.
Gotta get this right you know LOL

not likely chum, lol, space was at a premium and extra food or beer was taken

Wasn't t "Thirsty Ferret" was it LOL

We didn't use any tracked veh's in NI, I'm not sure about the Fox CVR(W) either, but we certainly had all variations of the CVR(T) in BAOR.

I have a pic of a Fox with the Tank Regiment in Omaugh ( did I spell that right??), I was also told that the Saladin was used in NI too. Friend of mine owns a CVR T Sabre.
Cheers
Troy

handler 69 wrote:

Just curious too gents, but what was taken out into the field....did you take magazines ( like home and garden ??) etc.
Gotta get this right you know LOL

Paperbacks mate, loads of paperbacks. Signallers, doing endless "stags" used to man 2 or 3 radios and read at the same time.

Who says men can't multi task ?

LOL my wife says so when it comes time to mow the lawns and pick up Rover's messages !

So would be fairly safe to have a few "paperbacks" in the back of the landy then...

Yeah, take it easy on the porn though mate, it upsets the Nigels.

Wheeled vehicles only in Ulster however - during Op Motorman (Clearing the IRAs 'No Go Areas') tracked vehicles were used albeit in a very small capacity - I wrote a paper on the IS situation and the British Army during Op Motorman for my history degree and I found, during research, that the RE, REME and RTR had limited tracked vehicles which were found to be unsuitable and too militaristic.

The REME/RE retained a couple of AVREs for purposes of vehicle recovery but even they only lasted a short period.

The choice armoured vehicle was the 'PIG' manufactired by Humber - which when I drove them were a pig to drive!

Later, Land Rover supplied the Shoreland armored Land Rover which also didn't have F1 driving qualities I can assure you.

In early 1972 the Eastern Armd Recce Regt ( comprising RHQ QOH, A Sqn QOH, A Sqn Scots DG) based at Gosford Castle near Markethill, used Saladin and Saracens for patrols in South Armagh. the Western Armd Recce Regt (Resident Recce Regt) based in Omagh had CVR(W).
Bob

Martin

Interesting input, I thought there were a few MBT on LCT floating out of sight at the entrance to Loch Foyle at the time of OP MOTORMAN. They could only have been landed with political clearance at the highest level which was never given.

They did have planned a sqn level deployment of MBTs for which, like you mentioned, no permission was granted - it would have had a devastating effect on the situation and we would have lost the MBTs - petrol bombs would have rendered their then somewhat NBC capability defunct, the streets were too narrow and would have drawn lines along the prague uprising where the warsaw pact soviet troops stamped their foot down.

We managed alright in my opinion.

My Dad, then a WOII RCT with extensive COIN/IS experience from Cyprus and Aden deployed as one of several special duty team leaders, although theoretically there were no such thing as special duties (non 14 int) until the mid seventies.

Agree wth Brum most vehicle born units kept a small library of "Warries" or "Tactical Library" consisting of an ammo box or similar container of dog eared paperbacks (the Sven Hassel novels about a German tank troop on the Eastern Front were popular in the 60s) or equally battered war comics for use by radio ops or duty officers/NCOs when things were quiet. They might be topped up by newspaper purchases from the YMCA or Red Shield mobile canteens who generally managed to find most units farly regularly even on the biggest FTX

Comics - warlord, battle, 2000ad, action, the commando comics and of course Sven Hassel - !!!

I never knew we had Saladin deployed in NI or, indeed MBT hanging about on Loch Foyle. We weren't told much in those days anyway and around '72 we were focussing on our own "patch".

Having seen an Irish Army unit with UNFICYP in '69, packing up to go home because the Republic were contemplating an intervention in Ulster, I imagine the deployment of heavier weapons in the border area a few years later would be to forestall or deter any further Irish ambition while MOTORMAN was going on.

Interesting stuff gents, thanks.

brum

Thats brillant I need to know what was in the back of vehicles and what you fellas toke with you so I can give an accurate picture of you fellas back then! Books only give you a certain amount of information and don't give that personal touch.
Folks are fascinated by the day to day items.
I think the Irish would have had a field day seeing large MBT's turning up in Shankill Rd!
Cheers
Troy
PS keep it coming this is really great stuff, no matter how mundane or trival let me know, as I want to get this as accurate as possible, anything else would be an insult to you fellas.

Is a "Nigel" a higher life form than a "Rupert"?

Troy

I think you have the wrong place. Martin will probably confirm but the contingency plans for the use of MBT involved the Bogside in Londonderry/Derry City not Belfast.