Memories of Toc H

Stephen Lock wrote:

Bazza -- I can't speak to whether there was a Toc H in Hemer or Dortmund as I am not at all familiar with the outfit, however, I do know there was a Red Shield Club in Hemer (affiliated with, or actually was, the Sally Ann) down on the Hauptstrasse. I think it was still there under the British as well....

There was also one in Soest on Bruederstrasse, the pedestrian mall, but I am pretty sure it closed down when the Canadians left the region.

That is the one I was on about, Stephen. At least I now know it was a Red Shield. I think it was the only place, at the time, where you could get British papers.

Paul.

BobG wrote:

there was a Toc H in Verden located in the Cavalry Bks in town, what happened to it when the bks were handed over I dont know.
Bob

Yes, I remember this one, although I don't think Cavalry Bks existed as such during my time in Verden ('69-'73). I recall it being quite a large building in its own grounds and was on the right just after the railway level crossing on the way into town from Caithness Bks on Lindhooper Strasse.
Mike

Mike,
The bks were originally called Holzmarkt Kaserne but known locally as the Cavalry Bks due to them having been occupied by German cavalry units since 1829. The name continued until about the mid 60's when the bks were handed over to the Bundeswehr and occupied by Arty Regt 22 until 1987, it now houses the German Horse Museum. You are correct in what you say about the TocH, the large house was originally part of the Bks but was separated from them when they were handed over to the Bundeswehr.
Bob

Paul wrote:

Stephen Lock wrote:

Bazza -- I can't speak to whether there was a Toc H in Hemer or Dortmund as I am not at all familiar with the outfit, however, I do know there was a Red Shield Club in Hemer (affiliated with, or actually was, the Sally Ann) down on the Hauptstrasse. I think it was still there under the British as well....

There was also one in Soest on Bruederstrasse, the pedestrian mall, but I am pretty sure it closed down when the Canadians left the region.

That is the one I was on about, Stephen. At least I now know it was a Red Shield. I think it was the only place, at the time, where you could get British papers.

Paul.

yes, actually now that you mention it. I used to get my copies of NME there!

Rocky wrote:

There was a Toc H on Furstenweg in Paderborn. It's been levelled and is now a carpark and there was one on Seeburgerallee in Berlin just up the road from Spandau.

Have to agree about the egg and cress rolls. For some reason, the TocH put out much better scoff than NAAFI and if I recall, they were cheaper than NAAFI as well. They were also very popular with the Toms. I am aware that NAAFI saw off the Red Shield and the WRVS when they brought Pay as You Dine into Germany, but I think Toc H bailed out of Germany way before then.

My Ex Wife used to work in the TocH in Padernborn between 1991 and 1993. It was during this time that i first experienced a Pukka pie.
I now work in Syston, Leicester and work across the road from the Pukka pie factory.

Ah Pukka Pies I love them, very filling in between 2 slices of bread after a night on the lash.

Was Sandies in Catterick a Sally army or red shield? As nigs on basic training back in 75, they made a welcome brew and sandwich on sat morning instead of mess meals after a night out in the Harewood club. The ladies were of the old school polite and charming. Les.

Sandes Soldiers Homes were founded in 1869 by a Christian Fellowship and are a separate entity from the Sally Bash who were formed in 1878.

Len (Ciphers)

Speaking of the Sally Ann....

Funny how growing up Army colours one's perception. As an army brat I was, of course, very familiar with the Salvation Army aka Sally Ann as we used to go their canteen a lot and of course the Sally Ann had their sandwich and tea/coffee trucks out on schemes for the guys.

I was dimly aware of the religious connotations re Sally Ann and some idea of the history of Salvation Army working with indigents and prostitutes in Victoria London etc., but it wasn't really a major part of my consciousness. To me -- to all of us, actually -- the Sally Ann was just a bit of home and a comfortable and comforting place to be.

It wasn't until years later I was aware of the Salvation Army in a different context (shelters, outreach to skid row, etc) and the strongly conservative theology of the denomination, quite evangelical even fundamentalist almost. In later years, I had some issues with much of the Salvation Army's ideas yet at the same time always remembered how good they were to soldiers and their families overseas and was more than willing to over look what, in any other denomination, would be reason for me to go on a hissy fit over them!

Looking back, I now realize the canteens etc. over in Germany were extensions of the 'outreach' the Salvation Army does and that there was a proselytizing component to them. Thing is, back then, it was just 'if you want to come to chapel on Sunday, you're welcome to and we hope you do. If not, that's okay...'

The Salvation Army Major (pastor) and his wife were very down to earth folk, quite okay with the sometimes rough language and approach of your average soldier, good humoured, etc. and certainly had the respect of all and sundry...even the atheists in the crowd!

I tend to see Salvation Armyists now as rather sanctimonious sorts, by and large. Unless they have served in a military-directed mission...but perhaps that is just my bias in favour of those who were attached to us showing. Probably it is.

I am surprised, as an adult, that the powers that be at Brigade HQ allowed a Christian denomination, apart from chaplains of course, "in" and to grant such access. Not sure it would happen today. Certainly other groups like Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses or Seventh Day Adventists would never have enjoyed the same access or privilege granted to the Salvation Army.

While critical of some of their policies -- quite critical actually -- I continue to hold them in high regard because of the work and support they gave to all of us overseas and for the work they do today amongst the homeless, street alcoholics, abused women, etc.

They, at least, put their money where their mouths are and one can't help but admire or at least respect that.

Gordon. wrote:

I spent four years in West Germany and never heard of it.

I think the various organisations tried not to trip over one-another.

I can list:

Church Army
Salvation Army
YMCA (was there a YWCA at Fally or is that wishful thinking lol?)

I am sure there were more.

Stephen,

I think you will find that you will NOT find a member of this forum who will come forward to say that they encountered any religious approaches by staff members or even saw any religious trappings.

Never in my 25 yrs did I ever encounter anything other than the fantastic service given by the lovely ladies and gents. Both German and British.

The superb meals/snacks served, be it on Camp, on the Training areas and even at the only Autobahn 'YMCA Windmill Cafe' (now long gone!).

One must also not forget that these organisations were usually the sole source of the current Daily Newspapers, magazines and periodicals, added to that, the nicknacks, toys and souveniers we took back to UK on leave.

All that said! I do believe that some guys may have sometimes sought to join what ever religious presentations or clubs that these Canteens offered.

alan8376,

I absolutely agree....as I mentioned, my own experience of the Sally Ann at that time was exactly as you have put out...fantastic service, excellent support of the families, great meals/snacks being served, and yes -- their newsstand was often the only place to get current newspapers (be they British or Canadian...although I think the Canadian ones may have been a bit more 'dated'...like a couple of days old, at least...but still a bit of home), magazines etc. And I well remember the knick knacks, toys, and souvenirs (bloody cuckoo clocks everywhere!!!).

I was dimly aware of the chapel tucked away in the back but never gave it much thought.

The YMCA, on the other hand, is a whole different kettle of fish. While certainly started as a Young Man's CHRISTIAN Association, it has long -- at least in North America -- been quite secular, focused on health and sports.

I well remember the old YMCA Windmill Cafe! Always looked forward to stopping off there when my parents and I would go off on various weekend road trips to where ever. I thought the building itself was wonderful and I can still recall the aroma of coffee and vinegary chips...sigh....

was a regular visitor to the TocH in Paderborn, on the corner of Neuhauser Strasse, happy days. lol

Sennelarger also had a Church Army canteen.

I had never heard of Toc H untill this thread started.

Give me the Sallys any time.

So these Pukka pies, never heard of them, I will ask Mr.Google if they are gluten free as I arrive in Southampton on 'Arcadia' 27 April, next year, after 7 weeks cruise from Sydney. But I probably won't need a Pukka pie after 49 days on P&O.

Any Bratwurst pies ove there?

Meat pies are a national dish in OZ. I have eaten thousands of them since I arrived in the 'Colonies' in 1966, proably what !"£$%^&*( my gut.

You appear to be very fond of Cholesteral Les

Les

Diverting a bit, departing on Arcadia 3 weeks today for a trip round the Baltic. Sailed on her in 2005 to the Med - great trip. 49 days - WOW, I am sure you will enjoy her.

Bob

Gordon. wrote:

I had never heard of Toc H untill this thread started.

I, too had never heard of Toc H, until I moved to Paderborn

I keep finding references to it in books on WW1.

Funny to think that "Toc" and "H" were phonetic alphabet in those days !

BobG wrote:

Les

Diverting a bit, departing on Arcadia 3 weeks today for a trip round the Baltic. Sailed on her in 2005 to the Med - great trip. 49 days - WOW, I am sure you will enjoy her.

Bob

Yours sounds great too Bob, I might contact you by PM on your return re any Arcadia secrets I should know, if ok by you. ENJOY.

PS it cost me £10 to come out from Southampton to Sydney in 1966 and is costing me AU$5000 to come back by ship. Having 3 weeks in a car driving around UK, post cruise. Yes an adventure via Africa. Adventure before Dementia mate.

Gordon. wrote:

You appear to be very fond of Cholesteral Les

I used to be Gordon, 35 years in the coppers, working shift, eating crap takeaways mostly..before the Coeliac Disease got me, now I have lost 30kg, fighting fit at 75kg on the gluten free diet, I eat that much salad, I got cucumbers growing out of my ears. No Pukka pies for this little black duck, but will be seeking out a gluten free pork pie when I arrived at Southampton on Arcadia 27.4.12

Quite an achievment Les..If i lost 30kg i would be halfway to invisability.

Subject: Re: Best Afroshop in Paderborn Yesterday at 11:58 pm
Steve,,,,you are needed again....

Moin Gordon
The guy is gone and deleted the topic
Cheers
Steve

Aha Steve...You have your uses

Thanks Gordon