27th Canadian Infantry Brigade

Yes the Brewery Glasses, definitely a favourite of mine still have boxes of them stored away (what we tend to send in MFO) as well as the badges/crests on the glasses I was always amazed at how fine the glass was compared to those in blighty

Les

A little souvenir of days gone by .. originally six of these little guys slipped out of the Mess, two were given away to friends .. quite a night if I could only remember.

Len (Ciphers)

Very nice Len, I didn't manage to get any of those, mind I mainly collected the German ones, I did however in a drunken stupor walk out of the Airport at Dusseldorf with an ashtray on stand with a litter bin on the side

Les

JPW wrote:

Bob R

Were not the married senior Officers and Senior Ranks entitled to Married Quarters like their British equivalents on 12 month plus tours of duty in married accompanied garrisons.

Ah the Brewery glasses, another forgotten souvenir of tours in BAOR

I don't think wives and family accompanied the Bde until they moved down to Soest?

Hardration, JPW, Les, Ciphers, and all other former pilfering criminals out there in the Baor,
Very pleased to read that the incoming threads clearly indicate that a collective relief of troubled minds is being achieved with the confessions of former sins and as well that there is a recognition of a strong plea for absolution.
In the absence of a padre in the forum, Absolution is hereby granted, LOL
via con dios
Bob

Thank you so much Sir. although I'm not giving up the ashtray, not after all this time, looking back we must have looked quite funny at 1 in the morning, running through the airport and across the main road to the camp, absolutely out of our heads

Les

JPW, Hardrations,
re: The question about married quarters for the 27CIB in Hannover in 1952-53
When the recruiting was done in Canada in 1951 for the 27CIB in Germany, single men were signed on for two years and married men for one year. No provision was made for marriage quarters and there were no exceptions at the Hannover garrison or anywhere else in the GHA.
Approximately 2180 married personnel were recruited out of a total number of 6525. Of course, some of the married personnel chose to ignore the policy and later brought their wives and families anyway. This caused a host of problems mostly related to schools, and medical/ dental issues. Worst of all, most did not have the financial resources to cover their expenses. Naturally the press back in Canada seized on this issue to embarrass the Govt. I think something was done but I am not able to remember how it was resolved.
Yes, marriage quarters were provided when the move was made to Soest.
Bob

Baor(27CIB) surfers,
Installment No 19 Another Failed Mission at the Horse's Ass
In 1952 Hannover was showing some modest signs of a rebirth from the massive destruction wreaked upon it by repeated air attacks. The strategy of the recovery plan centred on the reconstruction of a number of its former commercial and cultural buildings like the Central Railway Station, the Rathaus, the Marktkirche, the Opernhaus, Stadthallengarten and the Europahaus. These sites were all connected with newly and broadly constructed commercial avenues unlike the former narrow streets in the old town of Hannover. One could easily walk to these newly constructed sites but if one strayed just a few blocks in almost any direction, the devastation was unbelievable. When you walked out of the newly constructed Hauptbahnhof toward Ernst August Platz you were almost in the middle of Hannover's city centre. The Bahnhofstrasse leading away from the station was a pedestrian only shopping street with expensive shops on one side of the strasse. At the end of the Bahnhofstrasse you reached the Kropckeplatz which is at the intersection with Georgstrasse named after the King of England and Kingdom of Hannover. Kropckeplatz was the most central square in the city which was named after a waiter at the cafe and later its owner but which is now changed to the Movenpick. Next to the cafe stood the big green Kropcke Uhr. The two most important places for the Hannoverians to meet in 1952 were under the unterumschantz (horses's tail) on the monument of Koenig Ernst August, the Uhr at the Cafe, and also to a lesser extent the Machtsee which will be explained in a future post. The first two sites shown below were a magnet for people mostly the young.


After we visited the horse's tail a few times, the name got changed to the horse's ass probably because of all the horse shit and BS which got forked around on that site. Following the usual trash talk, the conversation always turned to the dubious stories about recent conquests or near misses, most of it erotic fantasy. The site never lived up to the hype; sure there were lots of people hanging around but there were very few unattached frauliens but lots of perverts and pseudo intellectuals. Surprisingly there were no hookers staking out their territory there. Gradually, we would start drifting to the walking promenade ultimately winding up at the uhr which we called the whore. My friend Desjardin and I decided that we would go into the K. Cafe for a couple of beers and some food. It was a busy night as usual but the maitre D was on the ball steering us quickly to a a table occupied by a single frau who was drinking something called coffee along with an awful smelling cigarette. LOL I don't know if the readers are familiar with the practice of seating someone at a table which may be already occupied. This is something that never happens in Canada and the US. We ordered a couple of steins, introduced ourselves, and my friend Desjardin, quickly using his Gallic charm, offered her a cigarette which she quickly accepted. Would, Maria, like to join us with a beer and following a decent bit of dithering she said she would, danke! My poor German quickly outpaced Desjardin's fast start but she politely cut me off when she said that she thought her English was probably better than my German. Score Desjardin , two, Ritter, one! Maria was not bad looking; I thought that she was about 30 years old. She said that she was on her way home from her workplace which I gathered was not too far from the Cafe. We said that we were going to order some wienerschnitzel and would she care to join us as our guest. Again with a little less dithering, she agreed. Danke 2. As the meal progressed we noticed that she did not eat all of her meal and proceeded to wrap the remainder and put into her handbag saying that her mother would enjoy it. Following her lead, both of us did not finish our meals which she also wrapped and deposited it in her bag without any embarassement. I suggested that we order a bottle of wine in lieu of the dreadful coffee. Would she stay? Jawohl! Danke 3. Score Ritter 3, Desjardin 2 . Suddenly, Desjardin announced that he had to leave early. Two's company, three's a crowd. Score Ritter 4 Desjardin 2. The wine seemed to warm up her willingness to talk about growing up in Germany under Hitler. This was my first opportunity since arriving at the base to talk to a Hannoverian about life in the 3rd Reich and I started to sense that she was supportive of the party achievements prior to the war. And what were these achievements I asked politely. Well, Hitler had turned the horrible economy around, restored German confidence, built the autobahns. the peoples car, and at the same time had provided employment and directed youth to be of service to the country. Germany's victory at the 1936 Olympics in Berlin seemed to embolden her. Had she belonged to the Bund Deutscher Madel? I asked. Yes, it was compulsory but she was not old enough for the move to the next step which was the military. I asked her if she had never sensed that Hitler was training the German youth for service in his military.

It became clear to me that she knew very little about world history , economics, or politics. but what could one expect, she was the product of a well controlled party curriculum, not only in the schools but also in the brain washing that she had been subjected to in the Bund. To illustrate this further, I asked her if she had ever heard of the German Condor Legion's involvement in Spain in 1937 and had she ever seen Pablo Picasso's iconic painting of the bombing of the defenseless city of Guernica. See picture below.

No, she had not; it was, I admit a low blow as the German press would never have permitted the people to see or to read about
that. I was gradually refuting the achievements she cited and at the same time trying to be careful in not alienating her. When she looked at her watch I knew that she had heard enough but when I offered to walk her home I was surprised when she agreed. I think that she was a bit relieved because it was now dark outside and the situation did not improve as we walked further away from the Cafe along unlit streets through mountains of rubble. As we continued walking I was growing a bit uneasy myself. Suddenly she announced that she could walk the rest of the way by herself and I sensed immediately that she did not want me to see where she was living. We talked a bit more and following what seemed to me to be some reluctant good byes punctuated by some meaningful kisses she turned and walked away into the darkness. However, about a week later I was surprised to find a letter from her thanking me and confiding to me that she was a single mother with a young daughter and that they living with her mother in a basement lodging not far from where we had parted.
A non sequitur ?
Look for my next installment, the Detention Centre a.k.a. the" Digger " at 27CIB.
Bob

Very interesting Bob.

Bob

looking forward to the next episode. Must be getting near to confession time regarding the young ladies.

BobG

BobG
Very nice to hear from you and glad to hear that I may have you on the hook. I'm sorry that I may have disappointed you with my last episode. I think there were a few signals of foreshadowing in my account which alerted the reader that the end result was predictable. Maria, who was not a fictional character, truly emerged as a victim. If I had been able to follow through on what had been my original intention, then a confessional would have been in order.
There are still a few more episodes before I arrive at the finale to my history. A confessional hmmm?
Hang in there,
Bob

Think it got the attention once they saw the "following through"

Baor(27CIB) surfers,
Installment No. 20 Another Orderly Officer inspection
27 Field Detention Barracks a.k.a. 'the digger' Hannover, 1952
The research for the 27FDB is derived from the following sources:
1. Historical Report No.51 Historical Section (GS) Army Headquarters
2. Home page, Canadian Provost Corps
The Hon Brooke Claxton, Minister of National Defense, in a speech in the Canadian House of Commons on 4 May 51 included in the list of "battle'' units for the 27CIB the C Pro C to form No 27 Provost Detachment from the No1 Provost Company London, Ont.

The following account is taken from the Home page C Provost C. The use of the terms Field Detention Barracks or the Service Detention Barracks are the same.
"The Service Detention Barracks were manned mainly by senior members(sergeants and above) of the Cdn Provost Corps. On completion of their training they were awarded the military qualifications of 'Disciplinarian'.The disciplinarians supervised the detainees daily routine which included morning kit inspections, morning drill periods, classroom lectures in selected military topics, more drill periods, and 'bucket details' which encompassed the near continuous scrubbing down and waxing the SDB floors. Detainees could not move or speak without explicit permission of the supervising Disciplinarian who detainees referred to as 'staff'. The whole intent of the daily routine in the SDB was to create an environment that would deter the detainee from ever wanting to return. Generally it worked."
In the event of misbehaviour a system pf punishment could be awarded as follows:
Close confinement for up to 3 days
No 1 Diet up to 3 days (bread and water)
No 2 Diet not to exceed 21 days( little more nutritional)
Detainees on diets were inspected by a Medical Officer.
Sentences were for 14/30/60/90 days.

Staff of 27 FDB Hannover, Germany 51-52

Shown L to R
Front row-Ssgt Pratt, WO11 Hele, Lt Andrew F. Ritchie(retired major), Capt J. R.Barrie,
WO1(RSM) E. J. (Earl) Gray, Ssgt Forbes, Ssgt Castellani, Sgt Lewis
Centre row-Sgt Fewer, Cpl Blais, Cpl Bud Hanlon, LCpl Stevens, Cpl Fleming. Cpl Atkinson,
LCpl Don Holden, Pte Parfitt, Sgt Ned Hayes
Rear row-Sgt Lenton, Cpl MacKey, Pte Hulowski, LCpl Walters, Cpl Deveau
Photo submitted by Ms Linda Tresham, daughter of C Pro C icon, the late Donald(Don) Tresham
" This vintage photo is of the staff of No 27 Service Detention Barracks (SDB) in Hannover, Germany - 1951/52 which was in its day deemed to be one of the toughest SDB's within the Canadian Army. Many service personnel discovered that fact as a result of their indiscretion that led to them serving time in this establishment and came out more highly disciplined than they could have ever otherwise imagined. In fact, some went on to have very successful careers developing into above average soldiers."
Kit Layout Picture

As part of my Orderly Officer duties I was required to inspect No27 FDB located at the Hannover Barracks in 1952. The inspection started during the inspection of the detainee's kits which were laid out much the same as the template shown in the picture above. One peculiarity which I remember was that all of their shoe polish cans or tins had all of the paint removed and that they were so highly polished that they could have been used as mirrors. LOL In touring the facility, I noticed in one of the broom closets a large bucket filled with well worn and very dirty tooth brushes. What's with the tooth brushes? I asked. The Sgt replied, They use them to scrub the floors, Sarrr!!! Sgt, if you tell me that they use these same brushes to clean their teeth there is going to be hell to pay! It was a "Don't ask; Don't tell" situation LOL. My overall view of the SDB was that it was mind 'numming' and 'dumming'.
Look for my next Installment- A scary river crossing exercise.
Bob

A meat head is a meat head is a meat head. Or Fleish Koff in German. Escorted a few lads up to Happy Valley in Soest. Not my cup of tea. One of the lads in my Sigs. Det. did two tours there. Only SDB left now is in Edmonton far as I know, though possibly one in Valcartier for the French/Cdn's. You can do up to 2 years less a day as in Provincial jails anything above 2 years and a day is Federal. We had a few in Stony Mt. Your mess tins, shoe polish tin, brasso tin was brought to a mirror like finish with the aid of a darning needle. Also your sanitation bucket.

Only knew one lad who beat Happy Valley a surveyor from the SSM Bty RCA. He just refused to do anything. Drill, eat, talk, listen he didn't do it.

My favourite memory of Meat Heads was New Years Eve in Lahr. Up until 72/73 the breathalyzer was done by German police. They had a Meat Head posted in who was qualified to do it finally. So on New Years Eve our W.O. Tech from the Sqn who as at the all ranks party on the air base, was driving out, the Meat Head at the gate asked, " Have you been drinking sir?" of course the reply was of course, " Yes". So into the guard room to blow into the machine. He came up over .08 (Germany was 1.0 I think. We went by Cdn law). So he informed the W.O. he was be charged with D.I. " Oh no says the W.O. I'm not the driver." Meat Head says, ' I took you out of the drivers side". WO points out his wife his driving, it's a right hand drive." The W.O. had purchased a right hand drive, as he was retiring back to the UK from Germany.

Hardrations,
Good to hear from you; I was amused by your account about the 'meathead' a Lahr.
But I was puzzled by the use of the darning needle; was it used to scratch off the
paint? Sorry, I think that I am losing it a bit.
Bob

The side of the darning needle.

Hardrations,
Thanks, I get it but isn't that too easy ?
Bob

Don't really know Bob. But I do know you could alway spot a DB survivor with those shiny mess tins.

Baor(27CIB) surfers,

Baor(27CIB) surfers,
A Tribute to Veteran
B12785 L/Cpl Jack Jenkins


The following tribute to LCpl Jack Jenkins has no connection to the 27CIB but it is indirectly related to the Baor. Because of my previous post about the C Provost C and my desire to pay tribute to Jack in what I feel is an appropriate forum, I am taking the liberty of posting it here. I hope no one objects.
I got to know Jack Jenkins a.k.a. J J over a period of five years while he was a resident at the Huronlea Home for the Aged at the same time that my wife was a resident there with Parkinsons. As I went to the home every day to spend the day with my wife, the three of us spent many hours of each day together. His room was next door and each morning when I met him I would always give him a salute which he always returned. The nursing aides were always amused by this but I think very few of them understood the intent of my salute . When he was feeling sick, I would always tell him that his train was not at the station for him. He had a very sharp mind and used to enjoy challenging me with familiar quotations some of them not so familiar to me. LOL He also had a gift and love for music; he could play by ear the violin, the piano, and the organ. Jack was born on a farm in Turnberry Township, Huron County in 1918. He attended the Wingham High School and had the same principal who hired me as a teacher, sight unseen, from the 27CIB in 1952. Jack left the farm to work in Toronto where he enlisted in the Army (RCA) in 1941. He went overseas on the troopship,"Andes" to England where he went through a selection board for a transfer to No. 11 Company of the Canadian Provost Corps. He was part of the Invasion Force landing on Juno Beach, Normandy on D+2. He was deployed as a military policeman throughout all of the battles through France, Belgium, Holland, and Germany. He must have been highly regarded because he was selected for the security detail for Sir Winston Churchill's visit to the front as well as during Queen Juliana's return to the Netherlands from Canada. He told me an amusing story about Churchill's visit when his vehicle stopped and Churchill got out with his customary cigar and drink in hand to relieve himself behind a tree. Jack said that he wore out 11 motorcycles, Nortons, Harleys, Triumphs, Indians, and Matchlesses. His sidearm was a Webley. I asked him if he ever had to shoot anyone. No, but it was close. He had to guard five prisoners until transport arrived for pickup. They were fanatics from the notorious 12th SS Panzer Div Hitler Jungend which was deployed during the Battle for Caen. Jack was awarded the following medals:
Defense Medal
France Germany Star
Canadian Volunteer Service Medal
War Medal 1939-1945
1939-1945 France Germany Star
Jack returned to Canada in 1945 and worked for 31 years as a lineman for the Bell Telephone Co. Jack passed away on 26 Aug 2011 in his 94th year. I visited him on the morning of the day he died. We talked briefly and he whispered to me that his train was at the station for him. We shook hands and I left him with a quotation, "If we meet again, we'll smile, if not, then this parting is well made." I gave him my usual parting salute and just as I was about to leave, he very slowly and with some difficulty returned my salute. It was a very memorable moment.
An Epitaph for J J

There was a Huronlea veteran fondly known as J J,
A former military policeman, and church elder in his heyday;
He fought the good fight
With all his might,
And he'll long be remembered as J J.
Bob

Can't see that anyone could object to that Bob

Well done mate

Very poignant, Bob.

A wonderful tribute Bob.

Hardrations.

The only dealings I had with the Can Provost Corps ('Meatheads') was in Montreal and were excellent. In Jan 65 the Brit and Can members of the CL 89 Drone Trials Troop met for the first time to undergo training at Canadair who were developing the Drone. We were accommodated at Longue Pointe Barracks and just after we had arrived we met the SSgt who was in charge of the CPC Det in the bks over a beer or two in Sgts Mess, he said that if any of our lads had problems getting back from town to phone the CPC post and a prowler would be sent to pick them up and safely deliver them back to bks. This was put to the test a few times over the three months we spent in Montreal and he was true to his word. So my limited experience of them is only good.

BobG

Bob

A fitting tribute from one Vet to another.

BobG