BAOR in the 1940s

brum wrote:

More to the point, what's he on about anyway ??

The fact that us Scaley's i.e. Royal Signals are everywhere on military websites. Well that was the way I interpreted it Brum?

steve wrote:

Think I have just found out the first British Army unit in Shiel Barracks Verden - HQ 51st (Highland) Infantry Division disbanded Aug 46 so then HQ 7 Armd Div must have taken over...source 5 Bn Camerons website they were in Cuxhaven after WW2 then later near Bremervorde...image of divisional sports at Verden...my guess named Shiel after Loch Shiel in the Highlands of Scotland...now working on Caithness Barracks...any ideas?
Cheers
Steve

Have just bought "30th Corps in Germany" published in 1946
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Shows the Corps and Div HQ locations so Sheil Barracks could have been HQ 152 Inf Bde not HQ 51 Inf Div!
Lots of information so now working on 30 Corps District units as 1 Corps District took over the area on disbandment of 30 Corps District Sep 46 and JPW is working on 8 Corps District so between us we should get this site updated any help will be appreciated to get the late 40s BAOR history together but only from May 45 onwards as the WW2 is a wealth of detail around but not so much written about the British Army of Occupation
Cheers
Steve

Will be shortly posting a new blog 'British Army of the Rhine 1945 to 1948' to piece together the British Army of Occupation and their movements and hope this will contributed to some of our missing history there will be a link from my British Army in Iserlohn blog
All the best
Steve

The is much written about WWII but little after until the build up of British Forces Germany after in Berlin Airlift and the start of the Cold War all WWII research on the internet seems to stop after May 1945 http://www.ordersofbattle.com/UnitIndex.aspx has been useful for wartime units and formations but stops at Aug 45 some time ago started my research on the British Army in Iserlohn 1945 to 1994 with help from BAOR Locations and ‘The British Army in Germany (BAOR and after) an Organizational History 1947-2004’ very useful but missing the first two years and some errors so my intention is to expand my research outside of Iserlohn

First the 1 Corps District area that took over 30 Corps District area in Sep 46 JPW has done a great job with 8 Corps District later Hamburg District so we hope to contribute to those missing years below is a scan of a 1945 BAOR Christmas card showing clearly 12 Corps that never formed a district believe the HQ was Hamburg until late 45 when final disbanded the HQ 2 Army lingered on to 1946 their HQ was Lüneburg then on disbandment 30 Corps District moved its HQ from Neinburg until disbandment Sep 46 when 1 Corps District took all of the British sector less Berlin and Hamburg District including Schleswig-Holstein when 1 Corps District disbanded Jun 47 each division (2 Inf – 5 Inf – 7 Armd) had a district each along with Hamburg and Hannover that came together in 1948 by then 5 Inf Div and 7 Armd Div had disbanded with units to Hannover District up to this point would like to record the movements around the British Sector

If anybody can assist with this research would be great what has been publish in later years is not always correct so what I have gone for is unit war diaries that continued into 1946 on peace keeping duties have found some unit journals on line and best of all a weekly newspaper an almost complete set for 45/46 so will be able to locate units around Iserlohn the 49 Inf Div area

Regards
Steve

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105th Reinforcement Group – formed Easthampstead Park near Wokingham Mar 44 later Bruges command 1st Corps District by May 45
1945 – 28 x Reinforcement Holding Units by the end of 1946 down to 2
50 RHU – Ripon Barracks Bielefeld formed Bordon Mar 44
54 RHU – unknown
A RHU was the size of a regiment with Lt Col CO + RSM and holding units for personal from disbanded units and retraining for other units
Can anybody help with more info
Regards
Steve

I was Born in Hamburg in '48. My Dadd was with the King's Royal Rifles at the time, or was there a Kings Lancashire Regiment?

jim wrote:

I was Born in Hamburg in '48. My Dadd was with the King's Royal Rifles at the time, or was there a Kings Lancashire Regiment?

Jim
Not to good on the Hamburg area JPW should be able to help better but 2 Bn Rifle Brigade (Prince Consort's Own) were in the area recorded and disbanded 11 Sept 48 and 1 Bn Lancashire Fusiliers were in Aldershot Barracks Iserlohn 53-66 sent a PM regarding the journal
Cheers
Steve

"1 Bn Lancashire Fusiliers were in Aldershot Barracks Iserlohn 53-66"

and so was I Steve

Pads Brat then Jim? as I was at Hannover in 53 to 56

Jim

I think your father must have been capbadged Kings Royal Rifle Corps (nicknamed 60th Rifles)

Battalions of both the KRRC and Rifle Brigade ended the war in the Hamburg area but by 1948 the British Army had significantly reduced in size and the Hostilities only Battalions had been disbanded though some were to reform as TA units in the UK.

I agree with Steve your father could have been stationed at Buxtehude (BMH Hamburg provided medical support to a vast area). Alternatively he might have been Extra Regimentally Employed (ERE) and been posted to one of the military Headquarters in Hamburg

Have a purchased a small book "Brigades of the British Army 1939-45" like all other WW2 information stops at Aug 45 and does not give locations except NW Europe but does should units under command as at Aug 45 so very useful

JPW, you are right thanks,

I spoke to my Mum last night, He was KRRC and yes he was working in Buxtehude. Mum told me he transferred to the XX of Foot shortly after I was born and we were posted to Bad Oeynhausen. I think that was HQ BAOR then.

Mike, you know I am.

Jim
HQ BAOR was indeed based in "Bad O" in 1948

I have only very faint memories of Bad O JPW, We were posted to Iserlohn when I was about or 5 I think, I know I went to my first school there.

jim wrote:

"1 Bn Lancashire Fusiliers were in Aldershot Barracks Iserlohn 53-66"

and so was I Steve

Sorry another error should be 53-56 recorded Nov 53 to Nov 56 replaced by the 1 Bn Norfolk Regt
Regards
Steve

LOL, I never even noticed the '66 mate.

steve wrote:

The is much written about WWII but little after until the build up of British Forces Germany after in Berlin Airlift and the start of the Cold War all WWII research on the internet seems to stop after May 1945 http://www.ordersofbattle.com/UnitIndex.aspx has been useful for wartime units and formations but stops at Aug 45 some time ago started my research on the British Army in Iserlohn 1945 to 1994 with help from BAOR Locations and ‘The British Army in Germany (BAOR and after) an Organizational History 1947-2004’ very useful but missing the first two years and some errors so my intention is to expand my research outside of Iserlohn

First the 1 Corps District area that took over 30 Corps District area in Sep 46 JPW has done a great job with 8 Corps District later Hamburg District so we hope to contribute to those missing years below is a scan of a 1945 BAOR Christmas card showing clearly 12 Corps that never formed a district believe the HQ was Hamburg until late 45 when final disbanded the HQ 2 Army lingered on to 1946 their HQ was Lüneburg then on disbandment 30 Corps District moved its HQ from Neinburg until disbandment Sep 46 when 1 Corps District took all of the British sector less Berlin and Hamburg District including Schleswig-Holstein when 1 Corps District disbanded Jun 47 each division (2 Inf – 5 Inf – 7 Armd) had a district each along with Hamburg and Hannover that came together in 1948 by then 5 Inf Div and 7 Armd Div had disbanded with units to Hannover District up to this point would like to record the movements around the British Sector

If anybody can assist with this research would be great what has been publish in later years is not always correct so what I have gone for is unit war diaries that continued into 1946 on peace keeping duties have found some unit journals on line and best of all a weekly newspaper an almost complete set for 45/46 so will be able to locate units around Iserlohn the 49 Inf Div area

Regards
Steve

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Hi all
Have completed part one of my research with the help of JPW…21st Army Group/BAOR and 1st Corps District units less 5 Inf Div and 7 Armd Div as they did not join 1st Corps District until later so need to do 30th Corps District and 8th Corps District first…will not be doing Berlin as much is already written and hope we have a researcher would can add pages to the “History of BAOR”
http://baor-locations.co.uk/Historyof21stArmyGroupandBAORMay45toFeb49.aspx
Please feel free to offer corrections and additional information regarding unit locations in the meantime starting on 30th Corps District now
Steve

Great stuff Steve, thanks indeed.

Thanks Jim...do we have an RA historian?

Have found out about the various AGRAs and their units but struggling with the anti-aircraft brigades post May 45 even been to page 50 of Goooooogle they appear to contain 2 x light and 1 x heavy as have 100 AA Bde listed:

Jun 45 – 100th Anti-Aircraft Brigade – HQ Harburg
113 (Durham Light Infantry) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA
123 (City of London Rifles) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA
165 Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA

The AGRAs and AA Bdes were attached to divisions and the AA Bdes had the task of looking after displaced persons and prison camps there are also Inf Bdes made up of RA regts numbered 600 series TA units trained in the infantry role and formed into Bdes 300 series lots of detail here
http://www.ra39-45.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/page3.html

But all stop at Jun 45 so any help would be appreciated
Cheers
Steve

steve wrote:

Thanks Jim...do we have an RA historian?

Have found out about the various AGRAs and their units but struggling with the anti-aircraft brigades post May 45 even been to page 50 of Goooooogle they appear to contain 2 x light and 1 x heavy as have 100 AA Bde listed:

Jun 45 – 100th Anti-Aircraft Brigade – HQ Harburg
113 (Durham Light Infantry) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA
123 (City of London Rifles) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA
165 Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA

The AGRAs and AA Bdes were attached to divisions and the AA Bdes had the task of looking after displaced persons and prison camps there are also Inf Bdes made up of RA regts numbered 600 series TA units trained in the infantry role and formed into Bdes 300 series lots of detail here
http://www.ra39-45.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/page3.html

But all stop at Jun 45 so any help would be appreciated
Cheers
Steve

Hi Steve. I have been conducting an on/off project to collect basic RA Regt details (location, role, formation, sub-units), most of the information having been gained from Unit Records held at the Public Records Office/National Archives. I have actually used the 1947 re-numbering as my starting point so we would have a 2 year gap in information which we might be able to fill by extrapolation? I don't have anything specific to AGRAs or AA Bdes but may have info in Regtl records that show the Regt belonged to one. I'll have a dig and let you know.

Mike

mjm34 wrote:

steve wrote:

Thanks Jim...do we have an RA historian?

Have found out about the various AGRAs and their units but struggling with the anti-aircraft brigades post May 45 even been to page 50 of Goooooogle they appear to contain 2 x light and 1 x heavy as have 100 AA Bde listed:

Jun 45 – 100th Anti-Aircraft Brigade – HQ Harburg
113 (Durham Light Infantry) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA
123 (City of London Rifles) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA
165 Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment RA

The AGRAs and AA Bdes were attached to divisions and the AA Bdes had the task of looking after displaced persons and prison camps there are also Inf Bdes made up of RA regts numbered 600 series TA units trained in the infantry role and formed into Bdes 300 series lots of detail here
http://www.ra39-45.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/page3.html

But all stop at Jun 45 so any help would be appreciated
Cheers
Steve

Hi Steve. I have been conducting an on/off project to collect basic RA Regt details (location, role, formation, sub-units), most of the information having been gained from Unit Records held at the Public Records Office/National Archives. I have actually used the 1947 re-numbering as my starting point so we would have a 2 year gap in information which we might be able to fill by extrapolation? I don't have anything specific to AGRAs or AA Bdes but may have info in Regtl records that show the Regt belonged to one. I'll have a dig and let you know.

Mike

Thanks Mike great news as the renumbering can show the previous unit and location some here
http://british-army-units1945on.co.uk/artillery.aspx
Steve

Hi all
Have completed part one of my research with the help of JPW…21st Army Group/BAOR and 1st Corps District units less 5 Inf Div and 7 Armd Div as they did not join 1st Corps District until later so need to do 30th Corps District and 8th Corps District first…will not be doing Berlin as much is already written and hope we have a researcher would can add pages to the “History of BAOR”
http://baor-locations.co.uk/Historyof21stArmyGroupandBAORMay45toFeb49.aspx
Please feel free to offer corrections and additional information regarding unit locations in the meantime starting on 30th Corps District now
Steve
[/quote]

History of BAOR updated today

http://baor-locations.co.uk/Historyof21stArmyGroupandBAORMay45toFeb49.aspx

1st Corps District units now complete along with 30 Corps District http://baor-locations.co.uk/Historyof30thCorpsDistrict.aspx but only with 5 Inf Div and 7 Armd Div

Thanks to JPW for his assistance and hope you can help with more details please understand difficult to record all sources but most have come from unit histories war diaries and unit journals that should be correct...but sure everything is open to question


Steve
PS Can do a short link on the website but not here any ideas?

You could use tinyurl Steve, see

http://tinyurl.com/

Now I'm off to read your submission.

Many thanks Jim

You can also use HypaLinks which this editor seems not to support;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperlink

for working examples