Army Lingo

Gordon. wrote:

Quote :

the squaddies who used to scribble on proformas, add all the factors up & come up with data for adjusting bearings, elevation, etc.

Shelldrake probably used one of those new fangled devices called COMPUTERS.Brum on the other hand would have used a slate and chalk

Spot on Gordon, FACE (Field Artillery Computer Equipment), but with Honest John we had, as cartav says. "Light the Blue Touchpaper" and retire.

How many of you Gunner types are going to admit playing with the ultimate phalic symbol in the Gunner world - the CORPORAL Missile. I believe the system even had erectors for you to play with !!

Bob

That was FAR too dangerous for me Bob, I believe you had to get dressed up as a Spaceman and then mix two highly volatile liquids together to initiate the propellent.

Shelldrake wrote:

That was FAR too dangerous for me Bob, I believe you had to get dressed up as a Spaceman and then mix two highly volatile liquids together to initiate the propellent.

At least the Honest John rocket was a solid fuel job, much less volatile.

You should have seen the bottle we fired it from though !

[quote="Gordon."]Would this be the sort of thing you used Cartav



Nearly right Gordon............ And certainly this Gun No. has the same leather
jerkin & woollen Long Johns with which we were issued.

But remember that Hoo-ha when my instructor had you all excited about
interference on the net ? Check out my illustration of the Muzzle Loading
Ack-Ack Gun if you really want to see how up-to-date we were in Minden Bty.

[quote=

TARAs were eventually renamed (I think they were called Surveyors).

We had a big Geordie gun No 1 who called them "educated idiots".

Nobody argued ![/quote]


Maybe part true, Brum. When FACE came in there was less room for error, but the key punchers still had to be pretty smart. Some TARAs could have been re-trained as Surveyors, but that group had been around for a long time and were responsible for tying in geographical locations ie. relative positions of things like centre of gun position, OP location, area & features occupied by enemy or own forces etc.

Because they could operate between them & us, it could be a hazardous occupation. Seem to remember expectancy of survival up front was something like 40 mins.

Shelldrake wrote:

At least the Honest John rocket was a solid fuel job, much less volatile.

Really. I didn't know that Honest John was coal fired!!

brum wrote:

Shelldrake wrote:

That was FAR too dangerous for me Bob, I believe you had to get dressed up as a Spaceman and then mix two highly volatile liquids together to initiate the propellent.

At least the Honest John rocket was a solid fuel job, much less volatile.

You should have seen the bottle we fired it from though !

Solid fuel yes, but I believe the Canadians were the only ones to have a misfire caused by the solid fuel not igniting properly. (Celle, April 1966) It rolled off the rails, got twisted around and was humping towards the firing party, bit of excitment for them.

Extract from "The Honest John in Canadian Service" by John Daviidson

Honest John in Canadian service had one misfire incident when the missile locking pins were not released. Eventually snapping the pins, the rocket (which expends all its fuel and thrust in about 1.8 seconds) rolled off the launcher and rolled around merrily on the ground. No injuries other than to pride occurred. (This is unlike a US launch where the entire truck flew forward for some distance or the I-HAWK launch in Crete where the entire launcher flew out to sea as the missile was stuck to the rail by too many coats of paint!)

It's hard to imagine the Yanks would be so lax.

We used to have US inspection teams descend on us that scrutinised everything that went on on the launcher position, (Shelldrake, what WAS the name they gave to that inspection ?).
Every little discrepancy was noted and went into their report.

We bloody hated them !

It was NSI, Nuclear Surety Inspection,made PRE and Unit Admin Inspection teams look like amateurs!

Yes, & I would have hated & feared the bloody things if I'd been any where near one.
Knowing our NATO partners reputation for shooting first & saying sorry afterwards it's fortunate that one was never let loose by accident................. and maybe it would have been more effective to pass them to the Ivans & say "Here you are comrades ! Try some of these !".

I have questions for the expert rocketeers............. Is that quoted burn time of 1.8 secs really accurate ? Don't seem much to kick 2 tons of metal bits & atomic stuff up the back end & push them 20 odd miles........ My 38mm dia., stick guided projectiles from the Chinese Fire Cracker Emporium have lengthier ignition...... It would have been quite exciting it fell off the launching rails mid burn, but the display of it rotating like a demented Catherine Wheel would have cheered observers..... And even if everything went to plan, it must have been tricky to be anywhere near the jet exit orifice.

Then how was it aborted if it went off by accident? Difficult to divert a non-guided missile, or hazardous to our own lot underneath the flight path if an airburst facility was built in.

And a comment......... The spec of the Greek paint that found it's way on to the launching rails might be of interest. Maybe they could solve their national cash flow problems if they developed it as an all-purpose adhesive.

Cartav, I think the burn time of 1.8 secs is a bit conservative, although no expert (I was just a Gun Bunny) I believe that it was around 5 secs. Live firing of the HJ always took place with an AIG present, the vehicle and rocket were positioned around 100m away from the Command Post. Prior to firing, all members of the Det were safely ensconced in the area of the CP, this meant that if the Rocket did fall of the rail, damage was kept to a minimum!! If, on pressing the Tit, the Rocket remained on the rail, an hour elapsed and then the AIG and the No 1 returned to the Rocket and disarmed it - don't ever remember that happening!!

looks like the R.A.V.C have become aggresive

"john boy" wrote:

looks like the R.A.V.C have become aggresive

Kicks like a mule.

I'll get me coat!

[quote="Shelldrake"]Cartav, I think the burn time of 1.8 secs is a bit conservative, although no expert (I was just a Gun Bunny) I believe that it was around 5 secs.

I'm in complete agreement on this one.

While the amount of time the rocket burned would depend on how far away the target was, I think if Ivan was 1.8 secs away it would be a case of "fix bayonets" and on with the brown trousers !

"john boy" wrote:

looks like the R.A.V.C have become aggresive

So THAT'S how he won the Grand National !

Thanks Brum & Shelldrake........ The more I learn about HJ ( that was Hitler Youth in my day!) the less I like it. My "Boys' Book of Big Guns of 1970", however, says it was pointed by moving the truck round & the range was determined by varying the departure angle..... very precise stuff, which saved on provided expensive optical sights. And if misfire or hang fire drill meant sticking around for an hour, I reckon I'd be on that jet assisted mule heading for a pub ten miles away. Who wants to be an Ack -I- Gee ? Not Me !

And there must be some way of stopping it in flight if it's been pooped off in error....... solid propellant ain't easy to extinguish, ( if it's still burning after 1.8 secs !) and, with the trajectory precisely set by the departure angle, it'll need a big kick to send it off course.

How lucky I was to be only around more ancient ways of disposing of one's enemies!

Cartav, I would think that with the amount of preparation and control exercised prior to live firing it would be nigh on impossible to fire it by mistake.

Thanks Shelldrake ! I can rest more easily........... maybe ! But somewhere, somebody more astute, wrote ......" If there's a 10 percent chance it could go wrong, there's a 90 percent likelihood that it will ".

With HJ we could be talking payloads of between 5 & 25 Kiloton nukes........ big bangs.

Remember the Space Shuttle disaster ? Check after check, dozens of OK launches but something relatively simple like an O-Ring failing blew it into tiny bits. I'm sure you are right to believe that the HJ system is as foolproof as man can devise, but man ain't perfect and hopefully an abort thingummy is built into all such systems.

Sounds like another query for Logistics or REME.........
"Hello All stations Rickshaw & Bluebell, Roger so far, Over"