27th Canadian Infantry Brigade

Bob

Hopefully this will get you zeroed in on the Bks Loc. The Bks are located on the right going north on VWS. Ref the Autobahn junction, the bks are bordered by the Autobahn, VWS and Kugelfantrift (the first road going east from VWS south of the Autobahn). Chatham Bks was located in the SE corner of the Bks complex, the badly damaged block can be clearly identified on Google Earth. Langehagen Bks were located directly opposite on the western side of VWS, now an industrial estate.

There are another two smaller barracks further east. Follow Kugelfantrift to General Wevers Strasse, turn north (left). The barracks are on the left near to the Autobahn, the other has been built over and can not now be identified.

Hope this helps.

BobG

Brum,
Thanks for your post with the picture of a Troop from 5th Fd Regt RCA firing their 25pdr ca Malden Holland in WW2. I don't know very much about the 5th Fd other than they were from ca Victoria, BC. I think. One of the Batteries, 99Fd Bty was activated in 1941 from my county militia Regt (21 Fd Anti Tk Regt/21 Fd Artillery Regt) which I was with from 1953 -1970) was activated ca 1941. They were sent out to Prince Rupert BC where they provided the gun crews for Canada's only armoured train to deal with the possible Japanese threat from the Aleutian Islands. When the Americans drove the Japanese out, the 99th was sent to England in 1942 where they became part of the 19th Fd Artillery Regt RCA. They went in around Caen on D day; they were an SP Regt equipped with an SP gun called the Sexton(Ram chassis with a 25pdr howitzer). They fought their way through France, Belgium, Holland ending up around Oldenburg Germany.
Bob

ritter wrote:

Brum,
Thanks for your post with the picture of a Troop from 5th Fd Regt RCA firing their 25pdr ca Malden Holland in WW2. I don't know very much about the 5th Fd other than they were from ca Victoria, BC. I think. One of the Batteries, 99Fd Bty was activated in 1941 from my county militia Regt (21 Fd Anti Tk Regt/21 Fd Artillery Regt) which I was with from 1953 -1970) was activated ca 1941. They were sent out to Prince Rupert BC where they provided the gun crews for Canada's only armoured train to deal with the possible Japanese threat from the Aleutian Islands. When the Americans drove the Japanese out, the 99th was sent to England in 1942 where they became part of the 19th Fd Artillery Regt RCA. They went in around Caen on D day; they were an SP Regt equipped with an SP gun called the Sexton(Ram chassis with a 25pdr howitzer). They fought their way through France, Belgium, Holland ending up around Oldenburg Germany.
Bob

Credit for the 25pdr picture must go to Hardrations, Bob.

Thanks for the interesting info. It's strange to think that forces were deployed in Canada to counter a Japanese threat !

BobG & Tony
Thanks Bob for the information in regard to the location of the former London/Edinburgh Barrack site in Hannover. I don't have Google Earth installed on my computer but I found a very good alternate satellite map site of Hannover. I was able to follow your street directions very clearly i.e. Autobahn Junction, VWS, and Kugelfangtrift. By maximizing the map I was also able to clearly identify the barrack blocks. It looks like the former parade square is now a parking lot . Have I got that right? I Have studied the map a number of times since I got your post to relate the site to my former memory of the base. That's 59 years ago. Have you any idea what is going on there now? Thanks for your help.
Bob

Bob,

The barracks, with the exception of Chatham, were taken over by the Bundeswehr when you vacated them, they became an officers training centre and renamed Emrich Cambrai Kaserne. It is now, after a major refurbishment, the training centre for the German Military Police who relocated to Hannover from Bavaria in 2009. Chatham remained in Brit hands until Hannover Station closed in about 1992/3, I believe the Bundeswehr then took it over.

BobG

Brum,this was 1941 when Japan was cleaning up around the Pacific,and once the US was in the frame the west coast became vulnerable,everybody was looking after the front door in the east and suddenly the back door needed attention.
Just as an aside,in 1955 I was on an American troopship from Seattle enroute to Korea,but the first stop was Adak in the Aleutians to drop off some US Navy families.We arrived in a thick fog and berthed on a quay with a sign "Welcome to Adak, The Pearl of the Aleutians", then the fog cleared and you have never seen such an unwelcoming dump, all grey rock,no vegetation,enhanced by a scuffy navy base of quonset huts.The only reason for being there was it's strategic location,it must have been miserable brcause I have read that the Japs gave up with little or no resistance.
A long way from BAOR I know,but you can't stop an old uns BS.

Tony

"Adak, The Pearl of the Aleutians"....when all there was was quonsets and scrub....now there's an example of the weird sense of humour so many military exhibit! Certainly the American, British and Canadian military have it -- in spades! Not sure if others have, but they may, just gets a bit lost in translation perhaps.

[quote="TonyE"]


Thanks for that Tony.

. . " and you have never seen such an unwelcoming dump, all grey rock,no vegetation" . . .

Sounds like a description of Fallingbostel !

Something like Liverpool in the 1950's ... my last sight of the UK as we shipped out to the 'Too Far East' ..

Len (Ciphers)

Hi Steve,
This post is in regard to your earlier response on 16/10/2011 to questions raised by Tony and myself about the units which served at the Hannover garrison during the time between the end of WW2 and 1951. A lot of your time and research went into that list of units which served there. This research along with the data provided by BobG after 1953 provides a very good summary.
Thanks very much
Bob

Baor(CIB) surfers
Installment No. 13 "Changing the Guard"
The picture below is a pictorial glimpse of a regimental custom going back into antiquity. Putting it into the perspective of 1952 it was no longer relevant or worthy of note. It had become devoid of all fanfare, no band, no ceremonial dress, nor a gallery of interested onlookers except for the usual contingent of persistent and ever present hookers at the main gate of Hannover garrison. This view is not intended to demean the truly ceremonial nature of a Changing of the Guard at a palace or state site which is clearly of benefit to the country's economy. The inspecting officer, second from the right in this picture, is 2/Lt Ken Ridge of the QOR of C.
The guard compliment at base Hannover consisted of about 16 riflemen under command of the Guard Sgt. The designated Orderly Officer of the day was required to inspect the new guard followed by an inspection of the old guard. This consisted of a weapons check and dress check for each guard. However, in the case of the old guard the inspecting officer was required to select a "Walking Out Man" and a"Stick Man" not an easy or enviable task. Presumably the Walking Out Man was rewarded with a week end pass or other perk while the Stick Man had to endure the ignominy of the designation and possibly worse. During my first Orderly Officer assignment involving a Changing of the Guard I was concerned about the obvious difficulty in selecting the best as well as the worst rifleman in the old Guard. My Platoon Sgt advised me that would not be a problem as the selections were made ahead of the inspection by the Guard Sgt and the CSM. I was immediately struck by what I regarded as my negligible participation in the process and it reminded me of the old Family Compact in Canadian history where decisions were made by a small group of self appointed and arrogant politicians arbitrarily imposing their will in the legislature. I sensed that my Platoon Sgt was somewhat cynical about the cronyism in the selection of the Walking Out Man.
The next morning following my inspection of the old guard, the Guard Sgt was startled when I told him that we would do a second inspection in order for me to assure myself that I was making the right choices. This second look convinced me that the predesignated Walking Out Man was not the best turned out rifleman and as well that the predesignated Stick Man was not any worse than some others. In my decision I was moved by my sudden remembrance of a Biblical passage which stated that "So the last shall be first and the first shall be last. You don't 'belief' me! Well dust off your King James versions of the Bible, not those revisionist abominations please and check Matthew 20:16. And what were the aftershocks of the decision I had rendered? According to my Platonn Sgt a very pissed off Sgt of the Guard and a CSM. Surprisingly I never heard anything from further up in the chain of command. But then what could they have said? I had been divinely inspired, motivated and directed. LOL
This my story and I stand by it.
Bob

I have just remembered a major unit in Hannover in 51,there weren't many,none of the arms, all adm etc.Actually there were two,15 RSD RAOC at Vinnhorst,last stop on the 18 tram line. 12 Heavy Workshop REME occupied the Hanomag Truck factory at Hannover-Linden,at the back of the factory was what appeared to be a cleared bomb site,thr rubble had been used to form the banking for an arena and they had laid down a cinder speedway track.I went there one Sunday afternoon,the riders were servicemen and German civilian employees,they rode what looked like modified,(cannibalised),army bikes that were quite good performance wise.The crowd was mixed so when a German won the locals really kicked up their heels,can't blame them they didn't have much to cheer about,and when the occupiers got beaten it was time to celebrate.Never went there again,I was posted to Bielefeld the following week.

Tony
Nice to hear of your remembrance of an event in Hannover during the 1951 era. There not many of us around who were there at that time and who are still able to remember anything. LOL Your reference to the Hanomag-Linden plant or what was left of it reminds me of seeing those lumbering Hanomag trucks in great numbers around Hannover and area. They were all very old models and very noisy. Never did see a newer model, just those snub nosed tractors hauling heavy loads. There seemed to be very little room for a driver and passenger. i'm sure the Germans would have taken great delight in seeing one of their own win any of those races. You're right they didn't have much to cheer about. If one got away from the city centre, just a couple of blocks, the streets were just like lanes through the heaped up rubble. I also remember the tram line very well although I had forgotten the name of the strasse it served.

Tony, did you ever see one of these VW's, a 1949 model with the unique split rear window. I vaguely remember seeing one but seeing a new car was a rare sight. The VW's were to be Hitler's car for his people but it took years for them to be able to buy one. Germany was desperate for foreign dollars. The car was great in Canada's climate because their air cooled engines did not need any anti freeze. You were never driving fast enough for those beetles.
Thanks for the message
Bob

My neighbour, 92 yrs old, was at Langenhagen around 1947 era. He is now rather deaf, but his memory is good of the time there. He was an RE Oficer. His unit I suspect was at or on the airfield.

Some of Eric's memories:

1. He was with an RE unit with masses of recovery trucks and trailers. Their job was to recover tanks left since war from the surrounding area into a cental areas on the airfield.
His accomodation as Officers Mess, was in Mr 'Pelican Pens' house. (Allee Str???).

2. At the airfield, he remembers a bulldozer crashing into a covered over celler (bombed building above it). On inspection, they found the celler to be covered with 6ft tables, each holding radios. None of the radios being German, mostly USA, British and others.

3. When Eric left Hanover, he and others had built radios from the stuff found and took them home. Interestingly, the Customs at Harwich gave them a good going over for the stuff they had, which was the norm in those days. One of the guys even had built a radio, which the Customs guys didn't spot, which incorporated the early form of transiistors.

4. Eric was initially in Hameln post war. I suspected the Hanover job came via the RE unit there. Albert Pierrepoint was carrying out his duties at Hameln at the time. Hanging those found guilty of War Crimes.

5. Once during an inspection at the unit on the airfield, Eric had to hide their run around vehicles, so they built an under ground pit and covered it over. He wonders if the pit still exists!

6. One of Eric's jobs was to vet German families (he spoke no German) when other ranks wanted to marry.

7. When soldiers went out to Hanover, they had to go in two or more groups. Not because of safety. More because the locals nicked parts of the trucks, so one man always remained behind to guard.

8. One of the guys marrying a German lady showed Eric how he was building his furniture to take back to UK. Cleverly, each packing case was designed to be an integral part of a car garage.

9. Eric was one of those who raced the bikes on the cinder track. (1946-47 era).

Well, thats about it.. Not sure there is any other info to come, as Eric repeats the same things!

Bob,
I drove a VW like that for a short distance,didn't have a driving licence,it was in Eindhoven and we were on the first NATO air exercise in April 51,the driver let me have a go in one of the very quiet suburbs that had a dual carriageway going nowhere,it was from our div hq carrying the food supply officer and he didn't mind Taffy the driver taking us out at night.

My first sight of Hannover was the main station with no roof on any platform and the streets down the side just piles of rubble,going to the cinema out near the Messe once past Agidientorplatz and onto Hildesheimer Strasse it was total demolition for a long way.I was in London for all of the war and used t seing bomb sites but never anything like that.

Tony

Hi Tony and all,

Yes at that time we were used to seeing bomb damage; an old house opposite us was pulled down yesterday, took me back all those years

Harburg from my memory was one of the worst areas I saw

Hannover, the biggest impression I remember was seeing a number of shops, lit up in the evening with expensive goods the average German could not afford; it was a big contrast to London even at that time. Any idea which street these shops were in?

It is important that all these memories are recorded and kept before us okdies forget or are gone; we certainly lived through interesting times
Regards Tony

Hi Tony,
Thanks for the interesting response; you have a remarkable memory. I will test it further with the picture below. I think that the kirche was located at Agidientorplatz which you mentioned. It was destroyed in 1943 during one of the 33 bombing missions on Hannover in WW2. When my wife and I were visiting Berlin in 1976 we saw the Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church on the Kurfurstendamn (not sure about the spelling)which had been destroyed and the remains left as a permanent reminder. It reminded me of the Kirche in Hannover in 1952. I suppose there are a lot of churches in Germany which were left in the same condition as testaments to the folly of war.
Thanks for your interest
Bob

Hi Bob,
I don't remember the Agidienkirche,maybe that's because the bomb damage started there and in those days it just blended into the background.I was stationed in Vinnhorst at tthe Cold Store,just three of us, Sgt Cox,a L/Cpl and me,to get into town we rode the 18 tram,and I learned every stop off by heart because the conductor always announced the next stop now all I remember is Am Steintor,Cafe Kropke and Agidientorplatz.There were always three cars in the tram set,last one being the smoker,we used to call it "The Gas Chamber", actuually I didn't mind the smell of thr cigar smoke even though I was a non smoker,a rare breed in those days.

Tony Burgess,I remember the shops having all the luxuries,but can't tell you thr street names,right acroos the road from Cafe Kropke comes to mind,made you wonder who has won the war,no rationing and some very nice gear in the windows.Nylon stockings were about DM4 a pair and unobtainable in the UK,so I used to buy them for family members and send them one at a time inside a letter, they had to send me the tins of Nescafe to to sell for the DM,the exchange rate was 12 to the pound then.

Regards Tony

Hello Alan 8376,
Thanks for relaying the remembrances of Hanover and the GHA from your 92 year old friend. He has done very well to recall those interesting anecdotes. Please pass along my thanks to him. I did not know that war times crimes were tried in Hamelin with the sentences being carried out there. I thought all of that was done at Nuremberg.
Regards,
Bob

ritter wrote:

Hello Alan 8376,
Thanks for relaying the remembrances of Hanover and the GHA from your 92 year old friend. He has done very well to recall those interesting anecdotes. Please pass along my thanks to him. I did not know that war times crimes were tried in Hamelin with the sentences being carried out there. I thought all of that was done at Nuremberg.
Regards,
Bob

Albert Pierrepoint was the executioner. He topped Lord Haw-Haw in the U.K. with various other assorted spies etc. In Hamelin he once did 17 two days in a row and on one day 27. Even hanged two executioners who plied their trade in extermination camps. He was known for paying attention to details.

Hardrations,
Thanks for enlightening me on the persona of Albert Pierrepoint who was totally unknown to me. I had always believed that the identity of the hangmen in England and in the countries with British heritage were kept secret up until the time of the abolition of capital punishment. Looked him up in Wikipedia; very interesting. I had also been under the impression that capital punishment for all war criminals was carried out by the military in Nuremberg. I'm also adding to my vocabulary British terms, the last one the "topping" of Lord Haw - Haw in the UK. Also did not know that the quaint old town of Hamelin is known for more that the Pied Piper.
Thanks for your help
Bob

TonyE wrote:

Hi Bob,
I don't remember the Agidienkirche,maybe that's because the bomb damage started there and in those days it just blended into the background.I was stationed in Vinnhorst at tthe Cold Store,just three of us, Sgt Cox,a L/Cpl and me,to get into town we rode the 18 tram,and I learned every stop off by heart because the conductor always announced the next stop now all I remember is Am Steintor,Cafe Kropke and Agidientorplatz.There were always three cars in the tram set,last one being the smoker,we used to call it "The Gas Chamber", actuually I didn't mind the smell of thr cigar smoke even though I was a non smoker,a rare breed in those days.

Tony Burgess,I remember the shops having all the luxuries,but can't tell you thr street names,right acroos the road from Cafe Kropke comes to mind,made you wonder who has won the war,no rationing and some very nice gear in the windows.Nylon stockings were about DM4 a pair and unobtainable in the UK,so I used to buy them for family members and send them one at a time inside a letter, they had to send me the tins of Nescafe to to sell for the DM,the exchange rate was 12 to the pound then.

Regards Tony

Hi again,
Cafe Kropke area must have been the place for those smart shops, we just could not believe we had won the war
Those tins of Nescafe you could hide one in each sock that did not show when you walked out of camp, plus many packets of fags in battle dress top. That was how I got my first camera
Oh Happy Days

Regards
Tony

ritter wrote:

Hardrations,
Thanks for enlightening me on the persona of Albert Pierrepoint who was totally unknown to me. I had always believed that the identity of the hangmen in England and in the countries with British heritage were kept secret up until the time of the abolition of capital punishment. Looked him up in Wikipedia; very interesting. I had also been under the impression that capital punishment for all war criminals was carried out by the military in Nuremberg. I'm also adding to my vocabulary British terms, the last one the "topping" of Lord Haw - Haw in the UK. Also did not know that the quaint old town of Hamelin is known for more that the Pied Piper.
Thanks for your help
Bob

Hi Bob,

A little war story for you. In 1967, 1 SSM Bty R.C.A. ( I was attached) was on exercise in the Hamlen area. We were doing a convoy through Hamlen when the 2 i/c stopped the convoy and was excitedly pointing at a typical 4 story apt. building with a window in the peak at one end and was saying to the troops, " that's the window, that's the window where I got my last one". Well on further explanation he told them that he shot his last German soldier in that window and mentioned that the soldier just hung out the window, did not come flying down like in the movies. Our 2i/c was of Dutch heiratige, escaped to the UK in WW 2 and eventualy ended up in the Canadian Army. He had the DCM which he earned in WW 2 and also did a tour in Korea.
One of the best officers I was to work for. Wasn't an officer to B.S. one, so what ever he told us, had to be on the up and up.

Hi TonyE & Tony,
I'm having a devil of a time keeping you "guys" straight. I think I'm losing it a bit. So, Burgess720 a.k.a.Tony, lives in Australia, right? TonyE a.k.a. Tony lives in Woodbridge Suffolk, UK, right?
OK, my reply to both of you has to do with the shopping location with the expensive shops which were located in the area of the Kropcke Cafe which was the site of the Uhr which we called the whore. Meet you at the whore(uhr) tonight at 8:00, LOL. Since our time in 1952, the Kropcke Cafe's name has changed to the Movenpick Restaurant, unfortunately the uhr or whore has disappeared to a site of better pickings, the tram cars are gone, pity, and the Platz is now the site of a station for the UBahn. Are all of these changes correct? There were five streets surrounding the Kropkce Cafe, which I believe were Georgestrasse, Rathenaustrasse, and Standehausstrasse, the last mentioned being the street, I think, where those expensive shops were located. I posted a picture of this site in this forum; page back to page 3 on 27/9/2011 and you will see the shops on the street to the right of the uhr. They all have their outside sun blinds drawn. Don't hesitate to tell me that I've got all of this FUBAR. I also bought a camera at one of these shops with some of the proceeds of my commodity exchange i.e. Seagrams rye whiskey and cigarettes. I didn't realize that Nescafe was such a valuable commodity, LOL More to follow on an individual basis if I have your names right.
Bob

ritter wrote:

Hi TonyE & Tony,
I'm having a devil of a time keeping you "guys" straight. I think I'm losing it a bit. So, Burgess720 a.k.a.Tony, lives in Australia, right? TonyE a.k.a. Tony lives in Woodbridge Suffolk, UK, right?
OK, my reply to both of you has to do with the shopping location with the expensive shops which were located in the area of the Kropcke Cafe which was the site of the Uhr which we called the whore. Meet you at the whore(uhr) tonight at 8:00, LOL. Since our time in 1952, the Kropcke Cafe's name has changed to the Movenpick Restaurant, unfortunately the uhr or whore has disappeared to a site of better pickings, the tram cars are gone, pity, and the Platz is now the site of a station for the UBahn. Are all of these changes correct? There were five streets surrounding the Kropkce Cafe, which I believe were Georgestrasse, Rathenaustrasse, and Standehausstrasse, the last mentioned being the street, I think, where those expensive shops were located. I posted a picture of this site in this forum; page back to page 3 on 27/9/2011 and you will see the shops on the street to the right of the uhr. They all have their outside sun blinds drawn. Don't hesitate to tell me that I've got all of this FUBAR. I also bought a camera at one of these shops with some of the proceeds of my commodity exchange i.e. Seagrams rye whiskey and cigarettes. I didn't realize that Nescafe was such a valuable commodity, LOL More to follow on an individual basis if I have your names right.
Bob

Hi, yes you got the names right; just looked on google maps; so many changes, and memory for such detail has gone, was only in Hannover 7-10 days, and only went into town a few times.

Keep the memories flowing
Regards
Tony RE