BAOR Bank Notes

As a new "joiner" I've enjoyed going through the posts. Yes, BAFV (pronounced "BAFF" for the unitiniated) was used by the Canadian Army in Germany until 1960 at which time, so I was told, the Deutchmark and German economy was strong enough that the post-war black market activities were no longer a threat.

It was a constant source of frustration standing in line on pay parade and trying to plan the next two weeks activities (unlike the British, we got paid bi-monthly) We had a choice, once in front of the paymaster, how much pay we took in marks and how much in BAFV. You had better get it right because you could not get more BAFV until the following pay day unless you went to any German taxi driver who probably had more of it in his pocket than did the Pay Corps. On second thought, maybe we could go to the pay office, but it was usually late at night when you suddenly found yourself "BAFF poor".

You needed BAFV in all NAAFI and Maple Leaf Services (our equivalent of NAAFI) shops and clubs as well as various other civilian service organization canteens such as Sally Ann, TocH, Church Army, etc. Marks were not acceptable in any of these establishments as I racall. (Please correct me here if I'm wrong.)

Great to see the images here. I've always kicked myself for not saving some of it. No, I don't recall plastic coins. Everything was paper except the standard British penny as I remember.

GEM wrote:

BAFSV (British Armed Forces Special Vouchers) were not valid in German shops in 1952 (it was illegal for German nationals to possess BAFSV).

I don't recall seeing or my parents using BAFFS in German shops, ever, so this is quite likely. Mind you, I am pretty sure the Canadians were paid in DM but then the intricacies of my dad's job and pay and such were a bit beyond my sphere of understanding; such things just "were."

I do remember my mother commenting on how the "damn Americans" were paid in US dollars (and US dollars only were used on their huge bases, certainly the one down in Frankfurt), so we always had to do an exchange whenever we went to the PX or down to the Frankfurt base.

GEM wrote:

Nor was it legal to exhange UK £s for DMs.

Interesting, but actually rather makes (some) sense.

GEM wrote:

The idea of BAFSV was to prevent anyone other than British fcrces and their dependents shopping in the NAAFI.
Soldiers put in their pay requirements on a Monday specifying how much to be in BAFSV and how much in DMs.

This makes perfect sense. Mind you, by the time I returned to Soest in 1972 to work for a German company, this use of BAFSV's was, I believe, suspended and the local NAAFI used DM.

Since, technically, I was no longer a Canadian Army dependent, I wasn't supposed to be shopping at the NAAFI, even though I often did (more familiar products than what I found in German grocery shops...and cheaper). Certain items, however, remained off limits to me as they were rationed...certain teas, tobacco products and certain liquors (although I could get Red Rose tea without a ration card and some brand of brandy...Urault, I believe).

GEM wrote:

I have spend hours trying to change BAFSV for DMs on a Saturday in order to visit the local guesthouse!! It was also illegal to sell cigarettes or coffee to locals but it was one way of getting hold of DMs!!

And make a small profit LOL

Even under the Canadians, black marketing was...hmmm...popular (and totally against regulations!).

One of the reasons I started smoking back then (and still do) was the social opportunities having a pack of Export A created. More conversations were started at the local gasthof over a pack of cigs than anything else I can think of. The local would ask to try one and, of course, offer one of his for you to try and the conversation would go from there.

I no longer smoke Export A, by the way...far too strong for me!

When I was working in Soest, I used to visit Frau Elizabeth, who some of you may recall as being the round little German lady who used to work at the Soest Sally Ann and dispensed tea, coffee, and advice to the soldiers up in Sennelager on schemes. She had also been our landlady many years before (circa 1969). Lovely lady who, unfortunately, had fallen on very difficult times following her retirement from the Sally Ann canteen.

I used to bring her packets of Red Rose tea and brandy, which she hoarded (she hoarded everything from string to paper wrapping to cloth).

As a Salvation Armyist she was, of course, a tee-totaller but she also had arthritis and would take a couple of small shots of brandy at night to help her sleep or to offer guests (not that she had many...).

Of course, it was illegal and I probably could have charged her a bit extra but never did...she'd simply reimburse me for the actual cost of the items.

I know many soldiers, and families, who were actively involved in black marketing. It certainly was not unheard of....

I'd forgotten all about the dear lady. She was a gem! There's a photo of the Soest Red Shield Club at ruhrmemories.com

larrytheone wrote:

On pay days around 1960 ish we were always asked how we wanted our money the following week, a split between BASF's & DM's.

Was never a real problem if you got it wrong as the pub down the road (Sports Klause) did a roaring trade in exchanging money

The Sports Klause was always the last port of call Sunday nights going back to barracks to change any DM's back to BAFS for the NAFFI. The rate of exchange was daylight robbery.

Then one pay day we weren't asked what we wanted the following week & we didn't question it as it had happened before & we got paid 50/50.

Come pay day the following week we were paid all in DM's & from that day the NAFFI took DM's. The guy down the pub was left with zillions of BAFS, it was pay back time for the troops, we could'nt help him even if we wanted to. (as if we did)

PS this was in Duisberg (Glamorgan Bks)

We were in Minden on 61/62 and although often heard references to BAFF's I never actually saw any. We were, from day 1, paid in DM and if memory serves 1DM = just under 2/- (2 shillings or 10p in todays money)
You got 1.5pf change from 1DM for 20 Senior Service cigs.

in Berlin in 1949 the currencies in use were Baffs .dollar scrip,french
francs ,east and west marks, if you were lucky you could turn a
quick profit by a bit of currency trading .
Bob

The official rate of exchange at the pay office through 1957 to 1959 was approximately DM 12 = 1 Pound.

Yes that is close to what we got in '52/'54, we used to get 14DM to the pound .. I left BAOR in a rush, just about an overnight posting to Korea/Japan .. gave all my BAFVs away as no use to me ... I get to Korea and guess what .. yeah they used them there ...

Len

Ah,good old days,I too remember when I got 13DMs and something for a Pound.Now I only get the equivilent of 2!!!
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Don

recce83 wrote:

I'd forgotten all about the dear lady. She was a gem! There's a photo of the Soest Red Shield Club at ruhrmemories.com

That she was, recce...for years, she served as a surrogate Mom to hundreds, if not thousands, of soldiers and, if they had families, to them as well. She was a sweet little old lady (and she was always a 'little old lady' even during our first tour circa 59-62 when she couldn't have been more than 50, if that).

She was always cheerful, although not so much by the time I returned to Soest in 73, by which time she had fallen on very hard times. If it hadn't been for her one son, Walter, who lived downstairs in the house she once owned and she lived upstairs in the flat we once rented off her, I believe she would have been in very dire straits. Her pension, if any, from the Sally Ann was meagre. I believe she got some money from the State, but again, not much.

I certainly enjoyed my visits with her. She was a wealth of information and knew Soest's history inside and out. She came from a fairly wealthy family, so she always told me, but they had lost everything in the war. She was not originally from Soest...I forget where she was from.

I never knew of a husband, although she had two boys; Karl-Heinz and Walter (quite an age difference between the two as well). She never spoke of their father. Apparently, he abandoned the family during or shortly after the war.

BAFF's were stil in use in Berlin until 1977 when everybody had to start using the DM. I was posted to Berlin from Werl in Oct 76, they were without doubt in use then. We had to draw them from the local pay office and could only use them in British facilities ie NAAFI and bars etc.

I remember the one shilling BAFFS purchased 20 Senior Service cigarettes in 1953-4.(Redcap)

Surprised at you Redcap, selling cigarettes for DMKs Ha Ha.
I was one of those doing the same thing trying to get enough money for a few beers. I remember the rations of cigarettes , 1953-1955, we got two vouchers sixty and eighty which we would buy or swap with each other to get more to sell.

Good times!!!

Hi Guys,
I`ve really enjoyed reading all your posting`s, and "yes" it does take you back somewhat.

Of course, I also remember those days of the paper money. BAFF`s or Special Vouchers, as it was known. But what I can`t recall is the value of the `soldiers pay packet, the only time i can ever recall having received a one pound note in my hand, from the paymaster, `was in the last six months of service. A soldier of our day, got very little in the way of wages. In his first six months,
he had little more than `thirty shillings, of which half of that, was then taken from him, this money was then placed into the soldiers (credits) leaving him, with the princely sum of fifteen shillings in is pocket. Again if i recall correctly, he did however receive something like, `two hundred cigarettes as an allowance.
Takeing you back to the Baff`s the paper money, `I would voluntarily take up a brush, and go forth, and sweep the corridors of the Block, for you were guarantied to pick up a fortune, in three pence vouchers. That then would get you into the Naffi on the night, where you would then buy yourself a pot of tea, and a fancy biscuit.

I have already told of getting my pay in 3d notes,sixty of them,but how about those hapenny and penny plastic tokens,they were a real pain in the butt,we used to throw them in the bedside drawer and then use them for a game of pontoon,I usually lost but somebody else got stuck with them,it was a real sign of poverty going to the NAAFI with them.

Hello Tony-E,
Nice to know some of us "oldies" are still around, though i have to `stress, age wise, `you do have the edge on me. I turn 75, in about 12 weeks time. However with that said, it does give one a stronger voice, in which to press a point, with perhaps the `younger elements within the `forum, should that need arise of course.
Back to the point in question: in all honesty, I can`t recall using any of the `plastic tokens, not at all. As i have stated, and will do so again, i would willingly sweep the `whole building out, in the hope of finding the cost of a `pot of tea. With that said, i supose i would probably have picked loads of the stuff up, loads!!!.

I have noted what you have said, in relation to your `pay packet, of that time, and yes yours was on a `parr with that of our own. Sixty times three, = 180 pence. Nice work if you can get it, i look forward to the pursuing of this topic.

As a Royal Signals Regular I received 49 shillings a week on enlistment (May 1951) ... I think the NS men at the time got 27 shillings .... with trade pay and rank increments we got by very nicely. As for BAFV's, when I was NCO Everything at 20 Armd Bde in Munster, one of the umpteen jobs I had was Sqn Pay Clerk. I had to calculate based on every mans pay, how many £1 notes, 10 shilling, 5 shilling, 2/6, shilling, etc we would need. After all the calculations imagine my frustration on Pay Parade when a man who was to receive say £4.10 was given 2 x £1, 4 x 10 shilling and 2 x 5 shilling by the bloody dozy Pay Officer. Half way through Pay Parade we were running after the guy's to try to get change ..

Len (Ciphers)

Hi Len,
That would have been about the `correct rate of pay, for a N/Service soldier, to have received at the time. I was called up, in 1953, by which time, it had increased to roughly 30 shillings, but has I have made known, this amount, was then halved, again i/e to 15 shillings. The other half being retained in the soldiers (credits) in that when that soldier would take `his leave, he was able to draw down on that reserve.
Insofar as the dozy paymaster, I`m not at all surprised you would have encountered such goings on.

Yes Coley-I used to flog my Senior Service ration to our German Interpreter who bunked down in the cellar of Block 8, Ripon Barracks, Bielefeld when on duty. I used to roll my own (Old Holborn) which was off ration. I remember sneaking along to his room and placing my weekly ration of 200 under his pillow where he had left a 5DM note. I never made any money out of it but he was a great guy to have around when there was a call-out to a RTA (Road Traffic Accident) involving military vehicles with German civilian vehicles, so it well worth it as my German was limited!

You just reminded me of my time playing pontoon Tony E, the only difference was we played for cigarettes instead of money, of course by the end of the night those who had won didn't really get much out of it as the tobacco had mostly fallen out by this time, the tobacco was scattered around the bed.

Happy memories!!!

I seem to recall those plastic coins, although I don't know if they were actually in use during my time (early 60's then early 70's). I may have seen them kicking around in a tin box of "oddses" my parents always seemed to have and I vaguely recall asking mom about them...can't remember what she said but I seem to recall it was something about BAOR currency or some such. Don't know what happened to them....

I remember BAF or BAAF notes in the late 50's as a dependant at Gutersloh.I can also remember over franked DM notes.If i remember rightly depending where you shopped.ie; Wiesbaden px.On camp,local shops.Great times.

BAFVs,yes,I remember them well.I thought the smallest item of currency was the 3pence note,can't recall any coins though.Still have a 3pence denomination note!Can anyone recall BAFVs coins,or does anyone have one as proof?
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Don

In the early 60s we had a coffee/cocoa machine in our NAAFI that took 3d bits, Donald. (In fact, often, it took your money but failed to give you the drink. One morning the guard found the bloody thing lying in the road !).
Don't recall any BAFS coins though. The name was "British Armed Forces Special Voucher" which seems to imply paper money doesn't it?
brum

A picture says a 1000 words!



Made in Bakalite, For sale on eBay in January

As thier were 3d notes - 1d tokens may have been the only coin?

As a matter of interest. NAAFI/EFI Canteens in Iraq & now Afghanistan issue POGS (Small Change Tokens)

http://www.efipogs.com/general1.htm









Which are quite collectible, as I am trying to get some myself.

Re. the 1d token.

Brilliant !